# Is Television Deliberately Terrible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 15, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591 "2018-11-15T23:09:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591/41 "2018-11-24T20:59:03Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I disagree about _ **Big Bang Theory** _. It \*used \*to be hilarious, back when it was about loser nerds doing sciencey stuff. You could tell then there really was a studio audience, and they were laughing hard at the comedy. > > It started to go downhill about five years ago, when they got into crap like “relationships” and “character development.” TBBT has always been about relationships and character development though? Am I being whooshed here? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591/42 "2018-11-24T21:32:22Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > TBBT has always been about relationships and character development though? Am I being whooshed here? …and it is still performed in front of a [live studio audience](https://the-big-bang-theory.com/tickets/). ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591/43 "2018-11-24T22:03:53Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …and it is still performed in front of a [live studio audience](https://the-big-bang-theory.com/tickets/). Yep. Some people just go hurrr-durrr “laugh track” without realising that, in a lot of cases, the fixed-set stuff is actually proper theatre. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591/44 "2018-11-25T05:29:02Z")
It may still have a studio audience, but they sure don’t laugh the way they used to. I know all about “fixed set stuff being proper theatre” (the three-camera sitcom was invented by Desi Arnaz back in the '50s), but I also recognize canned laughter when I hear it. It used to be about “relationships” in the sense that “I wonder who’s going to strike out and/or make a jackass of himself tonight.” And “character development” doesn’t mean changing a character beyond recognition. Sheldon was funny when he was a clueless, insensitive, uptight, condescending jerk. Now he’s just a mellow, pussy-whipped dweeb. Not funny at all, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Batano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Batano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batano)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591/45 "2018-11-25T06:18:38Z")
There are some shows made for dumb people. Compare Jeopardy and Family Feud. I am sure the demographics of the audience skew very differently. They don’t look for the brightest bunch when they pick contestants for the latter. There is a huge difference between the contestants on Master Chef and Hell’s Kitchen as well. The contestants on Hell’s Kitchen are the type that dropped out of high school after repeating 10th grade for the third time. They look for people who will create drama. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591/46 "2018-11-25T16:31:28Z")
> [@Batano](#): > > There are some shows made for dumb people. Compare Jeopardy and Family Feud. I am sure the demographics of the audience skew very differently. They don’t look for the brightest bunch when they pick contestants for the latter. I think you somehow just insulted those of us who participate in the [Feud threads](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=865043) here on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591/47 "2018-11-25T21:01:33Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > but I also recognize canned laughter when I hear it. …can you really? Are you sure? What are the specific differences between season 1 laughter and season 12 laughter? They obviously “sweeten” the live audience with additional laughter (and they make no secret of that) : but they’ve been doing that since the beginning. Nothing has changed. > [@](#): > > Sheldon was funny when he was a clueless, insensitive, uptight, condescending jerk. I’m pretty sure Sheldon is still a clueless, insensitive, uptight, condescending jerk. > [@](#): > > Now he’s just a mellow, pussy-whipped dweeb. If “pussy-whipped” means “polite and respectful to his wife” then I, for one, am glad that that aspect of Sheldon’s character has changed. Nobody wants to see a version of Sheldon that is abusive to his partner. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591/48 "2018-11-25T21:59:42Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Seinfeld, Frasier, Friends, All in the Family, The Cosby Show, The Simpsons, Cheers, just off the top of my head. All very highly rated, all very popular. I figured your list might be something like that, which is very similar to what my list would be. But it kind reads like a “Get off my lawn!” manifesto when the “good” shows went off the air 20 or 30 years ago and all the current shows are “bad.” (Caveat to note you specifically say BBT isn’t BAD in that it’s competently made, but hopefully my point still comes across.) > [@](#): > > In 2017-2018 the top shows included shows like This Is Us, Modern Family, Empire, Scandal, The Orville, The Goldbergs, and The Good Doctor, all of which are very good shows. Of course, the traditional ratings system doesn’t really fully capture the success of pay-as-you-go shows like Game of Thrones, Better Call Saul, Westworld, Atlanta, The Handmaid’s Tale, etc. I don’t really watch network dramas, so I can’t speak to those with any confidence. I watch a metric ton of network sitcoms, though. Perhaps my point only applies to sitcoms, not dramas, and perhaps only shakily applies to sitcoms at that. Your comment about “competently made” resonates, and undercuts my point. ---
**Author:** ![bmasters1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@bmasters1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmasters1)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591/49 "2018-11-26T12:56:35Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Also, with long running shows, it’s often not at all about the actual plot; it’s about the characters and how they interact. I mean after the first few seasons, nobody watches NCIS for the awesome plots, it’s because they like the characters and their interplay, and oddly enough, the cast turnover seems to enhance that- it affords opportunities for new and different interactions relative to the static old ensemble. That’s how it was with me and _The Streets of San Francisco_ on DVD-- I enjoyed how Karl Malden’s Mike Stone character and Michael Douglas’ Steve Keller character interacted with each other over the first four seasons’ worth of that 1972-77 ABC police/detective series; when Douglas left and Richard Hatch came in for the fifth and final go in 1976-77 (Hatch being Insp. Dan Robbins), the dynamic changed somewhat, but I still thought it quite enjoyable, mainly because Karl Malden was still there as Stone. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591/50 "2018-11-26T16:34:17Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > TBBT has always been about relationships and character development though? Am I being whooshed here? I think he’s getting at the idea that early on, it was about four nerds trying to get laid while doing extremely geeky stuff for fun, and that was funny. They did definitely get the banter and relationships between guys of that ilk down pat, IMO. At some point, Leonard actually started having dates with real women and extended relationships, Howard substantially lost his creepiness, and Raj started being able to talk to women. Sheldon was the lone holdout- even though he was interacting with Amy, it was all within the context of their odd personalities. But over the course of the years, three of them have become married, and Raj is the lone weirdo holdout. And the show’s less about the four boys interacting, and more about the boys interacting, the girls interacting, and more often than not, some combination of a few boys and girls interacting. Shows evolve; there are still funny moments in TBBT. They’re not the same ones as before, and they’re not the same kind of funny as before. But they’re still there. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591/51 "2018-11-26T16:41:50Z")
TV, like anything else, is what you make of it. If you want, I can put together a line up of shows that will have you dry heaving at the end of one day. On the other hand, I could do the exact opposite, and that’s because, with today’s endless number of networks/stations, you can pretty much see or avoid most anything. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591/52 "2018-11-26T17:28:02Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Seinfeld, Frasier, Friends, All in the Family, The Cosby Show, The Simpsons, Cheers, just off the top of my head. All very highly rated, all very popular. Actually only The Cosby Show and Frasier were successful from the beginning, Of course, both of them started with built-in popularity. Seinfeld was #46 in the ratings during its first full season, #42 during its second. All in the Family debuted at #34. The Simpsons never ranked higher than #30 until **Season 12**. They were only a success by Fox standards. Cheers had notoriously poor ratings during its first season, ending up at #74 (out of 99 shows) and was saved only after the personal intervention of NBC president Brandon Tartikoff. Quality =/= success. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591/53 "2019-01-08T22:31:51Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Actually only The Cosby Show and Frasier were successful from the beginning, Of course, both of them started with built-in popularity. > > Seinfeld was #46 in the ratings during its first full season, #42 during its second. > > All in the Family debuted at #34. > > The Simpsons never ranked higher than #30 until **Season 12**. They were only a success by Fox standards. > > Cheers had notoriously poor ratings during its first season, ending up at #74 (out of 99 shows) and was saved only after the personal intervention of NBC president Brandon Tartikoff. > > Quality =/= success. Or for a more contemporary show, “Big Bang Theory” started out at #68 in its first season. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591/54 "2019-01-08T23:04:19Z")
[A little sloppy maybe.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVsZc3609Cc) But I think _deliberately terrible_ is a bit overly critical. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-television-deliberately-terrible/824591.md?page=2)