# Is telling a witness not to testify witness tampering? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 14, 2023, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568 "2023-08-14T17:14:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/1 "2023-08-14T17:14:05Z")
Suppose I know a person (Mr. Bloggins) is about to testify before a grand jury about my many, many, crimes. I posts on social media “Mr. Bloggins is about to testify before the grand jury. He shouldn’t. I barely know Mr. Bloggins. He has always been part of the witch hunt to get me.” Is this witness tampering? ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/2 "2023-08-14T17:36:36Z")
Yes it is, it has an implied threat when they say he shouldn’t. It could also be called an attempt to discredit the witness with the jury. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/3 "2023-08-14T18:12:22Z")
Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/4 "2023-08-14T18:34:04Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Yes it is, it has an implied threat when they say he shouldn’t. It could also be called an attempt to discredit the witness with the jury. You are correct sir. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/5 "2023-08-14T18:41:38Z")
Thanks! Additional confirmation is appreciated. 🙂 I think it is obvious who this is about, and I’ve seen a lot of redditors say this is a clear case of witness tampering but, I hate it when my source of knowledge is “reddit”. I have a lot more trust in the people here to be accurate, especially in FQ. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/6 "2023-08-15T13:10:36Z")
It seems to me if a witness is sworn to tell “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth” then advising them to not tell any of the truth is tampering, no different than telling them not to tell the whole truth. Plus, if a person receives a subpoena, they are essentially obliged to attend and testify. Telling them not to would be counselling them to commit contempt of court, would it not? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/7 "2023-08-15T13:21:16Z")
You have presented a hypothetical case. It’s not witness tampering based on what you have presented. If you’re some 2 bit criminal with no influence on others then you haven’t stated anything like a threat or any reason that Bloggins would be dissuaded from testifying. Your statement on it’s face is not witness tampering. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/8 "2023-08-15T13:24:07Z")
It looks like he’s also attempting to discredit the witness and taint the jury pool - “I barely know Mr. Bloggins. He has always been part of the witch hunt to get me.” The place to state that is in the court room, not on social media. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/9 "2023-08-15T19:44:04Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > then you haven’t stated anything like a threat Sort of like “Nice place you got here. Shame if something happened to it…” ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/10 "2023-08-15T19:54:20Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > If you’re some 2 bit criminal with no influence on others then you haven’t stated anything like a threat Can this 2 bit criminal throw a wine bottle full of gasoline? Because publicly claiming my GJ testimony is part of a witch hunt would make me a wee bit nervous about going to sleep at night. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/11 "2023-08-15T20:04:13Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > publicly claiming my GJ testimony is part of a witch hunt would make me a wee bit nervous Especially when we keep finding witches. > **[Rudy "Wicked Witch Of The West (Wing)" Giuliani | Scribble-Dee-Doo-Dahs #028...](https://www.bortq.com/bortyblog/scribble-dee-doo-dah-028)** > > Quick doodle after seeing Rudy’s hair dye running down on all sides of his face at his completely insane “voter fraud” press conference. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/12 "2023-08-15T21:18:04Z")
Not at all. There’s too little information in the OP to determine if there was a credible threat. Maybe if the OP told us the nature of his crimes it would be different or Bloggins relation to them it would be different. But “he shouldn’t” on it’s own is not a threat at all. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/13 "2023-08-15T21:35:33Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s not witness tampering based on what you have presented. If you’re some 2 bit criminal with no influence on others then you haven’t stated anything like a threat or any reason that Bloggins would be dissuaded from testifying. Your statement on it’s face is not witness tampering. Traditionally, witness tampering doesn’t require a threat. You could encourage, cajole, beg, plead, sweet talk, implore, or otherwise explain why it would be best if you didn’t participate, and it would be a crime. _Any_ form of encouragement not to testify is witness tampering. Here’s the federal statute. The operative language, I’d think, is “corruptly persuades” > [@](#): > > Whoever knowingly uses intimidation, threatens, or corruptly persuades another person, or attempts to do so, or engages in misleading conduct toward another person, with intent to– > > **(1)** influence, delay, or prevent the testimony of any person in an official proceeding; > > **(2)** cause or induce any person to– > > **(A)** withhold testimony, or withhold a record, document, or other object, from an official proceeding; > > **(B)** alter, destroy, mutilate, or conceal an object with intent to impair the object’s integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding; > > **(C)** evade legal process summoning that person to appear as a witness, or to produce a record, document, or other object, in an official proceeding; or > > **(D)** be absent from an official proceeding to which such person has been summoned by legal process; or > > **(3)** hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United States of information relating to the commission or possible commission of a Federal offense or a violation of conditions of probation 1supervised release, 2 parole, or release pending judicial proceedings; > > shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/14 "2023-08-15T21:48:27Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > You could encourage, cajole, beg, plead, sweet talk, implore, or otherwise explain why it would be best if you didn’t participate, and it would be a crime. None of those are in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/15 "2023-08-15T21:52:30Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > None of those are in the OP. I think the OP turns on whether it was communicated _to_ the witness. A post on social media probably doesn’t cut it. A private text, or a direct message? Yeah. And what if you _know_ that the person reads yours posts, or what if you don’t communicate to the person but put up a billboard near his house? Well, that’s the weeds in which lawyers live. If it’s too outrageous or roundabout in a telling way, you’d get in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![JHuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b3f665/32.png) [@JHuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JHuff)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/16 "2023-08-15T22:01:53Z")
“corruptly persuades another person, or attempts to do so” In the hypothetical, he surely attempted to persuade. But did he do it corruptly? Ive seen many definitions of “corruptly”. Oxford has “in a way that is not honest or moral, in return for money or to get an advantage” Well, in the hypothetical, a reasonable person would concoude that the defendant was attempting to persuade a witness to not testify in a situation where that would assumedly benefit the defendant, which in itself is not an honest or moral act. So it would seem by that definition, the act was done corruptly. But other definitions Ive seen of corruptly focus more on abusing a position of power for personal gain, or focus on monetary gain, which didnt really happen here. So its a toss up and I think wed need a professional opinion from someone with direct experience or specific case history examples of similar cases. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/17 "2023-08-15T22:58:40Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I posts on social media “Mr. Bloggins is about to testify before the grand jury. He shouldn’t. I barely know Mr. Bloggins. He has always been part of the witch hunt to get me.” > > Is this witness tampering? The only way I can see this as witness tampering is if there’s a credible concern that you’re issuing a veiled threat when you write “He shouldn’t.” Say, you’re known for sending out goons after people or knowing others to act as goons on your behalf. Otherwise, everything you posted on social media is likely the same as you’d like provide in testimony. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/18 "2023-08-15T23:15:08Z")
What if there are numerous cases of people committing violence because they thought that you asked them to? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/19 "2023-08-15T23:32:30Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > What if there are numerous cases of people committing violence because they thought that you asked them to? - I tried to cover that in my response, but I guess I wasn’t clear. > [@needscoffee](#): > > Say, you’re known for sending out goons after people **or knowing others to act as goons on your behalf.** ETA: I edited the bolded part in to the original post immediately after I posted it, but maybe you didn’t see a refreshed version before you replied. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568/20 "2023-08-16T17:27:48Z")
> [@JHuff](#): > > In the hypothetical, he surely attempted to persuade. But did he do it corruptly? > > Ive seen many definitions of “corruptly”. > > Oxford has “in a way that is not honest or moral, in return for money or to get an advantage” It’s right there - “to get an advantage”. If the witness’s testimony is likely to the alleged threatener’s disadvantage, then telling him or her - via a widely read public platform or directly - not to testify is corruptly “persuading”, even if it’s a non-threatening ask. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-telling-a-witness-not-to-testify-witness-tampering/988568.md?page=2)