# Is that a fat woman gets to see a short guy as "equivalent" a form of sexual affirmative action? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 23, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108 "2016-06-23T02:26:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/61 "2016-06-23T14:19:42Z")
Anyway, to respond to the OP’s post about “sexual affirmative action:” I’m not sure if I understand him correctly, but what he’s proposing \*\*\*is \*\*\*a form of affirmative action - if he’s proposing that short men and fat women should be considered as attractive as tall men or thin women. Secondly, relationships and dating are perhaps \*\*\*the \*\*\*arena of human interaction where there is the \*\*\*least \*\*\*affirmative action, ever. There is or can be affirmative action almost anywhere else - sports, jobs, politics, promotions at work, Hollywood, media, etc. - but when it comes to dating and marriage, people tend to be ruthlessly, mercilessly, socially Darwinistic. If they don’t like someone, they don’t like someone. That’s just how it is. There is virtually no affirmative action in this arena of society. Is it fair? No, but that’s just how it is. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/62 "2016-06-23T14:53:19Z")
It ain’t over 'til the short guy sings. No, wait… It ain’t over 'til the fat lady sings. ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_Elliot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jane_elliot/32/6166_2.png) [@Jane\_Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/63 "2016-06-23T14:56:19Z")
Oh, I think I get it. The OP wants women, who don’t want to date short guys, to be mocked and ridiculed like racists. But it’s different because white women who don’t want to date black men feel that way because they don’t think black men are quite human. Things like heightism are just not in the same league as racism. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/64 "2016-06-23T15:02:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’m not sure if I understand him correctly, but what he’s proposing \*\*\*is \*\*\*a form of affirmative action - if he’s proposing that short men and fat women should be considered as attractive as tall men or thin women. What he’s proposing is that it’s unfair of Society to suggest that short men who want lots of sex should lower their standards while simultaneously encouraging fat women in the idea that they are entitled to sex with tall men; fat women should understand that it is an honor to be approached by a short man, some of whom are quite fit. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/65 "2016-06-23T15:04:02Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > but why is it socially unacceptable for a white woman to say in public “I’d never date a black guy” but perfectly fine to say “I’d never date a guy shorter than I am?” At least the same guilt trip forced on the former should be forced on the latter, or neither. Everywhere I have every lived and among everyone I knew that came from a dating culture both are equally social acceptable excuses for not dating someone because dating isn’t the same as hiring, firing, applying the law or even common courtesy. toward someone. People that practice dating culture recognize it as a very personalized, intimate activity where many different emotions are going to come into play and personal judgments and preferences rule. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/66 "2016-06-23T15:07:43Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Height cannot be controlled at all, thus it does not reflect one’s values or personality traits. You know what else cannot be controlled at all? who you are physically attracted to. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/67 "2016-06-23T15:34:00Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Of course, I don’t dispute that one bit. But I’m saying that “I know some short people who succeeded in spite of being short” is like people who point to examples of successful African-Americans as proof that black people don’t face a disadvantage for being black. This would make sense if people were actually denying that short people (or fat people) are at a disadvantage. No one has done that. Just about everyone accepts that the romance arena is not a meritocracy or a game of chance. There is absolutely no reason to point out all the disadvantages, because everyone who has gone through high school knows that some groups are favored and others aren’t. > [@](#): > > Imagine if someone said about race in society: > \* > "But the point to these stories is that such racial disadvantages can be overcome, and complaining about the injustice is counterproductive, while bettering one’s self actually works. So we’re saying “talking about and wallowing in how racially unlucky and disadvantaged you are hurts your prospects further, while accepting yourself for who you at the same time as trying to be more upbeat, funny, interesting, etc., will actually work.”\* This is stupid, sorry. You can’t compare romantic attraction to economic discrimination. The former, almost by definition, is governed by subjective criteria. There are no set hurdles an individual must jump over to prove their suitability as a romantic partner. But job hiring at least pays lip service to objective qualifications. But you know what? If a person told me they were having difficulty getting a job because of their race, I’d both acknowledge how much this sucks and remind them that they can optimize their chances. Are they only applying at companies not known for workplace diversity? Are their qualifications only average? If so, maybe they can get another certification or skill set to set themselves apart. Everyone who is disadvantaged knows they have to work harder than everyone else. Hell yes, it is unfair. But such is life. Thing is, it’s a societal travesty when people are discriminated in the workplace/college admissions/housing based on the color of their skin. And thus, it is in society’s best interest to stop these practices. Is it a societal travesty that not every gets to have a girlfriend/boyfriend all the time? Is this a problem that involves societal-level interventions and remedies? Or it is more of an individual problem that calls for more individual solutions? When people talk about the unfairness of the dating game, I don’t know what they want me or others to do besides give them advice. We can offer sympathy, of course. But I always get the feeling that the person doing the venting doesn’t think that’s enough. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/68 "2016-06-23T15:37:34Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > The same reason bald men score while combovers winge and complain how ‘it’s not fair they didn’t get hair! Women are prejudiced!’ When in fact, the maturity and confidence that a bald man who has accepted himself puts out, totally trumps the snivelling insecurity of the guy combing his hair over his dome and pretending no one can tell! Someone needs to tell them that while not too many women name “bald” as their favorite kind of hair on men, women DO NOT MAKE FUN OF BALDNESS. However, women have lots of unkind and cutting things to say about combovers, plugs, and toups. > [@Velocity](#): > > Of course, I don’t dispute that one bit. But I’m saying that “I know some short people who succeeded in spite of being short” is like people who point to examples of successful African-Americans as proof that black people don’t face a disadvantage for being black. > > Imagine if someone said about race in society: > \* > "But the point to these stories is that such racial disadvantages can be overcome, and complaining about the injustice is counterproductive, while bettering one’s self actually works. So we’re saying “talking about and wallowing in how racially unlucky and disadvantaged you are hurts your prospects further, while accepting yourself for who you at the same time as trying to be more upbeat, funny, interesting, etc., will actually work.”\* The reason that analogy fails is that short people have never had to use separate restrooms, or go to separate, substandard schools, and there have never been laws stating that men can marry only women shorter than they are. If short people had been systematically oppressed, we’d be talking about something entirely different. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/69 "2016-06-23T15:40:17Z")
[Short people got no reason to live](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvgLkuEtkA). ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/70 "2016-06-23T15:49:00Z")
Growing up in a society where people were pretty much all the same color, “I’d never date a black person” didn’t come up. We did make fun of heightists for sounding as if they’d gotten the notion out of a magazine, specially when the speaker happened to be on either extreme: “dude must be taller than me” isn’t much of a limit if you’re 4’8", and complicated if you’re over the male average. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/71 "2016-06-23T15:59:36Z")
Meh, I didn’t really read this thread too carefully because I think the basic premise in the OP is bullshit. To wit. I am 5’ 2" and not even a tiny bit overweight. I have a height limit and will not date anyone over 6’ and prefer men under 5’ 9" or so. I am more comfortable with men that are closer to my size. I’m just one outlier, but I am quite sure that I am not the only woman who doesn’t have a preference toward tall men. What I do have a preference toward is short men who treat me like I’m a goddamned human being instead of some conquest to be obtained. I don’t know if anyone addressed the idea that there is some middle ground here and it can’t possibly be some Law of the Universe. People are different and are attracted to different physical body types. This all says far more about the OP and his dehumanizing, objectifying thinking toward women. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/72 "2016-06-23T16:08:31Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > What the actual fuck. Thank you. This is the only reply that makes any sense in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/73 "2016-06-23T16:21:22Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Height cannot be controlled at all, thus it does not reflect one’s values or personality traits. As others have already suggested, perhaps you need to start working on the latter. > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Weight can be; those who are fat are too lazy to go to the gym, and lack will power to control their diet. Given that some short men keep in good physical shape, women who aren’t quite slender (euphemism) should be HONOURED to get some of them, instead of acting all prissy and spoiled. This is as good a place to start as any. > [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > Is that heavier woman can “look down” on a short guy a great example of sexual affirmative action brought about the “feminism,” which clearly looks for easy targets, and short men are? Here, let me get that chip off your shoulder. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/74 "2016-06-23T16:25:46Z")
I don’t see why the OP is having a problem getting attractive women, height or not, with such a charming personality. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/75 "2016-06-23T16:40:58Z")
I used to get into arguments with my ex about this sort of thing. He was short (barely 5’0) and I’m overweight. He constantly was stressing over doing whatever he could to appear taller as he was convinced people looked down on him because of his height and that I just didn’t understand where he was coming to. I pointed out that when someone sees a short man they may think ‘wow he’s short’ and leave it at that. Because people have no control over their height. But when people see an overweight person, they often think (as the OP so eloquently put it) ‘Wow, she’s lazy as fuck and can’t be bothered to put her fork down. What a slob’. Short person might get comments about their actual height but overweight people get comments about their personality, morality, intelligence, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/76 "2016-06-23T17:05:52Z")
While the OP clearly shouldn’t be the standard bearer on the topic, I’m sort of struck by the casual way that short men are being ridiculed in this thread, on a supposedly progressive thinking message board, in a way that I can’t imagine other physical attributes of a human being would be. I guess something just for me to keep in mind in future threads when the same people pop up with their oh so very important messages about inclusion and awareness. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/77 "2016-06-23T17:09:03Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Mistake #1 > > You’re insulting a subset of women. Aka sexist. > > Mistake #2 > > They’re insulting a subset of men. Aka Progressive. > > #Progress Hahahahahaha… wow, who says old rightwingers don’t have a sense of humor? Even when it totally doesn’t fit the topic, and makes fun of something not even a straw man has said… it’s still a knee-slapper! And how 'bout them pickaninnies and their crazy trousers? Next, let’s make fun of fat girls who wear flannel shirts if-ya-know-what-ah-mean… ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/78 "2016-06-23T17:21:27Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > While the OP clearly shouldn’t be the standard bearer on the topic, I’m sort of struck by the casual way that short men are being ridiculed in this thread, on a supposedly progressive thinking message board, in a way that I can’t imagine other physical attributes of a human being would be. I guess something just for me to keep in mind in future threads when the same people pop up with their oh so very important messages about inclusion and awareness. All I see are a couple of jabs clearly intended to taunt the OP rather than casual ridicule of short men. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/79 "2016-06-23T17:22:05Z")
This isn’t 100% related to the thread topic, but this thread works for it well enough, I suppose…I’ve noticed this trend often when the issue of dating and attractiveness is brought up, which is that people will insist - in a well-meaning way, mind you - that a bright, sunny personality can overcome any physical-attractiveness handicap. This sort of of “pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps” advice is just not true, though. Sometimes it will not suffice. Someone who is hideously scarred from 3rd-degree burns over their entire face , might, for instance, never be considered attractive enough for anyone to want to marry them. That’s just the way it is. A disabled quadriplegic in a wheelchair may never be able to find someone who will love him and want to marry him, however good his personality may be. And ugly/disabled people \*\*\*know \*\*\*this. Telling them that “Oh, people aren’t repelled by you because of your looks; they’re repelled by your unhappy personality; all you need to do is change your personality and you’ll be attractive in no time” is not helpful to them in the least, and it’s very harmful. They know they’re unattractive because of their physical condition, you can’t fool them into into believing it’s not the case. If someone is hideously disfigured, sometimes no amount of confidence, optimism or the usual personality attributes that people try to encourage in them is going to make them attractive. It’s just not. I am not referring to the OP himself, btw, but speaking of an observation about society in general. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/80 "2016-06-23T17:27:50Z")
FWIW, I think the OP makes a valid point; short men are indeed considered less attractive than tall men, generally speaking. It’s just that he communicates it in such a way that antagonizes his audience. If he had said, “Being short is not the fault of the short person, and it is a disadvantage in many ways, and it is wrong to ridicule short people,” I think he would have had a more receptive audience. And it’s interesting that dating and relationships, more than almost anything else, makes people throw their political viewpoints out the window. The same liberals who argue passionately for “equal opportunity” and “non-discrimination” are quick to argue passionately\* in favor of \*discrimination and \*against \*equal opportunity in relationships (why should they have to give all suitors and prospects equal opportunity?); and the same conservatives who preach the virtues of meritocracy may be dismayed if it turns out that, in dating and relationships, \*they \*themselves are not considered particularly attractive . Dating makes hypocrites of us all, I guess… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108.md?page=5)