# Is that a fat woman gets to see a short guy as "equivalent" a form of sexual affirmative action? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 23, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108 "2016-06-23T02:26:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/121 "2016-06-23T21:10:20Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > And flaming assholes are _extremely_ unattractive. Hey, the heart wants what the heart wants. Sometimes the heart wants a flaming asshole. Who are we to judge? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/122 "2016-06-23T21:14:45Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Hey, the heart wants what the heart wants. Sometimes the heart wants a flaming asshole. Who are we to judge? The only thing this thread is missing are evolutionary psychologists to come in and explain that women are hardwired to hate short men because they’re viewed as less able to provide protection and stability, so short men must be placed in the unfair position of compensating for their evolutionary shortcomings through higher earning potential. Jesus I’ve been here too long. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/123 "2016-06-23T21:19:20Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Sounds like you’re the one advocating sexual communism. “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.” You want to be given something just because you need it, even though you have nothing anybody wants in return. except women are the protected class from criticism, including fat women. “Protected classes” is a common feature of cultural marxism. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/124 "2016-06-23T21:19:48Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The only thing this thread is missing are evolutionary psychologists to come in and explain that women are hardwired to hate short men because they’re viewed as less able to provide protection and stability, so short men must be placed in the unfair position of compensating for their evolutionary shortcomings through higher earning potential. > > I’ve been here too long. I don’t go for evolution stuff, but isn’t it indeed true that many women state that the reason they find taller men more attractive than short men is because tallness is associated with strength, confidence, status, leadership and ability? If it’s not that, then what exactly makes tall height an attractive trait to women? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/125 "2016-06-23T21:22:23Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > except women are the protected class from criticism, including fat women. “Protected classes” is a common feature of cultural marxism. If you’re arguing that fat women and short men should \*both \*be considered attractive, then maybe that’s communism or affirmative action. If you’re arguing that \*neither \*fat women nor short men should be considered attractive, then that wouldn’t be either communism or affirmative action. But otherwise I think you have your terminology totally mixed up here. You’ve talked about affirmative action in relationships - is that , in your view, a good or bad thing? I am confused. ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/126 "2016-06-23T21:32:39Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The only thing this thread is missing are evolutionary psychologists to come in and explain that women are hardwired to hate short men because they’re viewed as less able to provide protection and stability, so short men must be placed in the unfair position of compensating for their evolutionary shortcomings through higher earning potential. > > Jesus I’ve been here too long. Why is that so implausible? There’s a reason the TV show is called “Footballer’s Wives” rather than “Professional Academics Wives”, “Stand-up Comedians Wives”, or “Regular Guy’s Wives”, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/127 "2016-06-23T21:36:20Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I don’t go for evolution stuff, but isn’t it indeed true that many women state that the reason they find taller men more attractive than short men is because tallness is associated with strength, confidence, status, leadership and ability? > If it’s not that, then what exactly makes tall height an attractive trait to women? I have no doubt it’s some bullshit rationale like that. That’s powerful stuff in our society. Of course, men won’t typically date women taller than they are for the same reason. I don’t understand that either. I’ve always wished to be tall but I lot of my tall women friends say they frequently are rejected by men because of their height. The cool thing about being a human, though, is we can evaluate why we value a given attribute, and whether it makes any sense to embrace that value in concert with the other things we value. We have the ability to think critically even about our own instincts and preferences. Some people seem to think these are rules that are universally followed and we are locked into them. Not so. Plenty of us reject them outright or just do not give a shit. And some of us are on the fence. Say, we might have a specific height or weight preference, but they aren’t critical deciding factors in who we choose to date. I have a physical preference for men with dark hair and dark eyes. Yet I dated plenty of blond boys before I met my husband. I think these preferences are rarely actualy dealbreakers unless they come with a side of social stigma - see, being attracted to fat women (or short men or tall women, I guess.) My whole thing is, why accept any of it at all, if you think it’s bullshit? I met, fell in love with, and married a man without ever once thinking about any of this. On the list of things I valued in a potential partner, height did not even rank. If it’s that important to people to control for that one physical factor, you know, go ahead and live your best life… but then don’t bitch when you too are rejected for similar reasons. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/128 "2016-06-23T21:36:35Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > except women are the protected class from criticism, including fat women. “Protected classes” is a common feature of cultural marxism. Do you believe this “protected class” status means that men are free to turn down fat women as long as they don’t criticize them, but women are free to turn down short men _and_ criticize them? Is that a fair way of putting it? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/129 "2016-06-23T21:39:01Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > Why is that so implausible? There’s a reason the TV show is called “Footballer’s Wives” rather than “Professional Academics Wives”, “Stand-up Comedians Wives”, or “Regular Guy’s Wives”, after all. I’m not familiar with that show. I am familiar with evolutionary psychology, and its pitiful scientific methodology. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/130 "2016-06-23T21:46:51Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > Why is that so implausible? There’s a reason the TV show is called “Footballer’s Wives” rather than “Professional Academics Wives”, “Stand-up Comedians Wives”, or “Regular Guy’s Wives”, after all. Sorry, just to make myself clear… I am not denying that certain cultural attitudes exist in society that often involve double standards for men and women. My point of contention is that this is just ‘‘the way things are’’ and should be accepted without reservation on the basis of lousy science and terrible ideas about what it must mean to be a man or woman, or that we are somehow doomed as a society to follow the ways of our ancestors. There aren’t enough roll eyes in the world. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/131 "2016-06-23T21:53:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I don’t go for evolution stuff, but isn’t it indeed true that many women state that the reason they find taller men more attractive than short men is because tallness is associated with strength, confidence, status, leadership and ability? > > If it’s not that, then what exactly makes tall height an attractive trait to women? A woman may not want to be a guy shorter than her because it makes _her_ seem less “womanly”, in her mind. It’s a crazy thought, I know, but a coworker gave this as the reason she wanted to date only “tall” guys. She’s a big girl who is self-conscious about her size. She didn’t want to be with someone who’d make her feel even more gigantic. Being with a tall guy makes her feel dainty. She’s the type who wants to be dainty. I inwardly rolled my eyes when she told me this, mind you. But still. It isn’t true that every woman with a height preference is making some kind of negative statement about short guys. Her preference may actually be a reflection of her own body insecurities. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/132 "2016-06-23T21:56:19Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It isn’t true that every woman with a height preference is making some kind of negative statement about short guys. Her preference may actually be a reflection of her own body insecurities. So we might say the same for men who won’t date tall women, yeah? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/133 "2016-06-23T22:00:12Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > So we might say the same for men who won’t date tall women, yeah? Exactly! ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/134 "2016-06-23T22:02:03Z")
And in all fairness, I’m 5’2’’. My short 5’7’’ husband is still tall, to me. It’s not like I run across men who are shorter than me on a routine basis, or ever had the chance to discriminate against short (to me) men in any meaningful way. My Aunt is 5’7’’ herself and married to a 6’5’’ man. She remarked that my husband is attractive, but too short. As for me, I can’t imagine being with a partner 10’’ taller than me just on the basis of pragmatics alone. All in the eye of the beholder, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/135 "2016-06-23T22:31:39Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I don’t go for evolution stuff, but isn’t it indeed true that many women state that the reason they find taller men more attractive than short men is because tallness is associated with strength, confidence, status, leadership and ability? > If it’s not that, then what exactly makes tall height an attractive trait to women? We can reach things on the top shelf without pulling a chair over. We can also get the spiders on the ceiling. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/136 "2016-06-23T22:36:44Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > We can reach things on the top shelf without pulling a chair over. > > We can also get the spiders on the ceiling. See, but this is why I want to _be_ tall. FWIW, I can attest that short men are just as capable of opening jars as tall men. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/137 "2016-06-23T22:39:40Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > except women are the protected class from criticism, including fat women. “Protected classes” is a common feature of cultural marxism. [Cultural Marxism](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism) > [@](#): > > Cultural Marxism refers to two things: > > First, extremely rarely, “Cultural Marxism” refers to the application of Marxist ideology and/or critical theory to social sciences. > > Second, much more commonly, “Cultural Marxism” is used as a snarl word by reactionaries to red-bait anyone with progressive tendencies. The term alludes to a conspiracy theory in which sinister left-wingers in media, academia, and science are engaged in a decades-long plot to undermine Western culture. Perhaps with some “Sexual Bolshevism” thrown in for good measure. > > The conspiracist usage originated in Nazi Germany, where Kulturbolschewismus (“Cultural Bolshevism”) was used as a political term of abuse, as well.[1] The Nazis being the Nazis, they of course often mixed it with their idea that all Bolshevism was a Jewish plot. > > If anyone rants about “Cultural Marxists taking over culture!”, feel free to remind them that they’re literally spouting Nazi propaganda. Please explain exactly what you mean by “cultural Marxism.” ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/138 "2016-06-23T22:41:47Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > A woman may not want to be a guy shorter than her because it makes _her_ seem less “womanly”, in her mind. > > It’s a crazy thought, I know, but a coworker gave this as the reason she wanted to date only “tall” guys. She’s a big girl who is self-conscious about her size. She didn’t want to be with someone who’d make her feel even more gigantic. Being with a tall guy makes her feel dainty. She’s the type who wants to be dainty. > > I inwardly rolled my eyes when she told me this, mind you. But still. It isn’t true that every woman with a height preference is making some kind of negative statement about short guys. Her preference may actually be a reflection of her own body insecurities. I definitely see this in myself. I would never feel “dainty” mind you, but as I have gotten heavier, my mind’s picture of the guy I would feel comfortable with has gotten bigger. I feel like that would someone how make us more compatible. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/139 "2016-06-23T22:47:33Z")
I haven’t read any of the replies, but I have to say this is a really bizarre OP. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/140 "2016-06-23T22:47:40Z")
This is what I love about the SD. No matter how dumb the original premise of the OP, something interesting and thought-provoking always comes out of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108.md?page=8)