# Is that a fat woman gets to see a short guy as "equivalent" a form of sexual affirmative action? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 23, 2016, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108 "2016-06-23T02:26:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/141 "2016-06-23T22:59:52Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > A woman may not want to be a guy shorter than her because it makes _her_ seem less “womanly”, in her mind. > > It’s a crazy thought, I know, but a coworker gave this as the reason she wanted to date only “tall” guys. She’s a big girl who is self-conscious about her size. She didn’t want to be with someone who’d make her feel even more gigantic. Being with a tall guy makes her feel dainty. She’s the type who wants to be dainty. > > I inwardly rolled my eyes when she told me this, mind you. But still. It isn’t true that every woman with a height preference is making some kind of negative statement about short guys. Her preference may actually be a reflection of her own body insecurities. While true, there does seem to be a growth in women who have 6’ as some arbitrary cutoff. I’m not sure where this started, I think it is just because it is a nice sounding number (like 100k income, or 10% bodyfat) that is easy to remember. But women who are 5’2 and women who are 5’10, I’ve heard multiple ones (at least online) talk about the 6’ cutoff. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/142 "2016-06-23T23:00:05Z")
I’m 5’5". My husband is six feet tall. My previous serious relationship, he was 5’8". I admit wanting to wear heels and not tower over him. I like putting my head under his chin. I cant help liking these things. But I have never heard women talk about short men the way men talk about fat women. Ever. Its all " I want to feel safe, I like wearing heels, etc.". Sometimes I even hear “short guys have big dicks”. Compared to the absolute disgust and horror men indicate about fat chicks… ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/143 "2016-06-23T23:07:22Z")
Exactly. But there’s nowhere I feel safer than in the arms of my 150lb, 5’7’’ tall husband. He is the golden standard for safety. I want everybody, short or fat, or tall or skinny, or man or woman, to know that feeling. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/144 "2016-06-23T23:13:32Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I’m 5’5". My husband is six feet tall. My previous serious relationship, he was 5’8". I admit wanting to wear heels and not tower over him. I like putting my head under his chin. I cant help liking these things. > > But I have never heard women talk about short men the way men talk about fat women. Ever. Its all " I want to feel safe, I like wearing heels, etc.". Sometimes I even hear “short guys have big dicks”. > > Compared to the absolute disgust and horror men indicate about fat chicks… Well… I’m a “shorter” guy (I don’t consider myself “short”, but maybe that’s just blindness on my part - I’m around 5’7" now, but was a bit over 5’ 8" once). What I noticed is that while women don’t particularly comment on short men the way (some) men comment on fat women, what they do is is some ways worse. They ignore them. When I used to date, I would find myself feeling invisible. I mean, women wouldn’t even see me. I finally started lifting weights, and got some muscle on me, and that help significantly. But, until I did that, I might as well have been a ghost. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/145 "2016-06-23T23:15:44Z")
Are there really people in this thread that think fat women don’t get shit on? Seriously? Because here in Texas, I’ve seen plenty of bumper stickers with the equivalent of “No fat chicks!” and exactly zero “No short guys!” in my almost 50 years. Not to mention t-shirts… ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/146 "2016-06-23T23:20:42Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This sort of of “pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps” advice is just not true, though. Sometimes it will not suffice. Someone who is hideously scarred from 3rd-degree burns over their entire face , might, for instance, never be considered attractive enough for anyone to want to marry them. That’s just the way it is. A disabled quadriplegic in a wheelchair may never be able to find someone who will love him and want to marry him, however good his personality may be. My husband has a burn scar over about 1/3 of his face, and one arm and shoulder. We’ve been married for 15 years, and I don’t even see it anymore. But at any rate, he still has beautiful eyes and a cute nose (even with a slightly deviated septum). Thank gawd the boychik got his nose. I have a very…ethnic nose, and he loves me anyway. DH also has a wonderful personality. I hope the boychik gets his social skills. ---
**Author:** ![DerekMichaels00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DerekMichaels00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DerekMichaels00)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/147 "2016-06-23T23:23:24Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If you’re arguing that fat women and short men should \*both \*be considered attractive, then maybe that’s communism or affirmative action. > > If you’re arguing that \*neither \*fat women nor short men should be considered attractive, then that wouldn’t be either communism or affirmative action. > But otherwise I think you have your terminology totally mixed up here. You’ve talked about affirmative action in relationships - is that , in your view, a good or bad thing? I am confused. if we are a merit based society, short men who keep in shape are more meritful than fat chicks. Isn’t part of non-communism the belief in merit, hard work, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/148 "2016-06-23T23:23:47Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Are there really people in this thread that think fat women don’t get shit on? Seriously? Because here in Texas, I’ve seen plenty of bumper stickers with the equivalent of “No fat chicks!” and exactly zero “No short guys!” in my almost 50 years. Not to mention t-shirts… Maybe it’s because fatness is, in the vast majority of cases, self-inflicted and therefore seen as fair game? A short guy can’t do anything about being short. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/149 "2016-06-23T23:28:42Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > if we are a merit based society, short men who keep in shape are more meritful than fat chicks. Isn’t part of non-communism the belief in merit, hard work, etc.? A fat chick who is kind and generous has a lot more going for her than a short guy who stays in shape but acts like a dick. But that still doesn’t make her more “meritful”. Whatever the fuck that means. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/150 "2016-06-23T23:32:13Z")
I was going to read all this, but I don’t read threads started by short people. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/151 "2016-06-23T23:34:02Z")
> [@Tithonus](#): > > Maybe it’s because fatness is, in the vast majority of cases, self-inflicted and therefore seen as fair game? A short guy can’t do anything about being short. Okay, but if we accept that as true, that undermines the argument, which has been made, that short men are as reviled as fat women. Either short men are as reviled as fat women and that’s not fair, or; Short men are not as reviled as fat women only because fat women have some devastating character flaw demonstrative of ‘‘lesser merit’’ and short men can’t help who they are. Pick one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/152 "2016-06-23T23:39:38Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > if we are a merit based society, short men who keep in shape are more meritful than fat chicks. Isn’t part of non-communism the belief in merit, hard work, etc.? My part of non-communism is the belief that [del]the customer is always right[/del] merit is in the eye of the beholder. If I tell you I’m attracted to the woman at the end of the bar, you might say you find her fat and unattractive. And another guy might say she’s _thinner_ than he’d like, and thus unattractive. But since this is a scenario where I find her attractive, _my_ belief is that (a) she merits my full attention and (b) I’m not going to waste time disputing matters of taste with you guys when I could be chatting with her. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/153 "2016-06-23T23:48:25Z")
> [@DerekMichaels00](#): > > if we are a merit based society, short men who keep in shape are more meritful than fat chicks. Isn’t part of non-communism the belief in merit, hard work, etc.? What about short guys who are angry, bitter, say misogynistic things, and feel entitled to sex? They seem the least “meritful” of all. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/154 "2016-06-23T23:55:57Z")
As **Velocity** pointed out, some people are at a greater disadvantage than others. That’s reality. Some men are born short, some people sustain 3rd degree burns over large parts of their body, and some children are trafficked into the sex trade before they even have a chance to develop a sense of sexual identity for themselves. I would not cover over the inherent injustice of life in general, and certainly that injustice extends to matters of love. That is not to say any of those folks are beyond hope… I don’t believe for a second anyone is. But you can never predict with these things. I’m a fat girl who met the love of her life at 18. Maybe unfair by Derek’s yardstick, but let’s talk about what happens when you know you don’t have a chance in hell of winning any beauty pageants, so you instead focus your life on being just the most awesome person you can be. The smartest, most compassionate, critically thinking, open-minded, thoughtful person you can be. Some people are attracted to that. It’ll up your odds considerably if you’re not a shallow self-obsessed jerk. I just happen to think being a person of good moral character is about as meritful as it gets. I dunno if it’s saying ‘‘pull yourself up by your own bootstraps’’ to point that out? To say we can make a choice about what we value in life and the closer our actions align with those values, the happier we will be? I don’t know if that comment was directed to me, I can’t figure out where it came from. [QUOTE=Derek] if we are a merit based society, short men who keep in shape are more meritful than fat chicks. Isn’t part of non-communism the belief in merit, hard work, etc.? [/QUOTE] I’m not sure what you’re complaining about. This is the society you want to live in. You contribute nothing of value, you get nothing of value. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/155 "2016-06-24T00:06:15Z")
What does the OP think of tall guys with small dicks? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/156 "2016-06-24T01:10:54Z")
So much anger and hate in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/157 "2016-06-24T02:02:58Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > So much anger and hate in this thread. Yeah, and it’s starting to really piss me the fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/158 "2016-06-24T02:04:24Z")
When you can stop seeing a world divided into hot or not hot women, you’ll stop feeling like you’re living in a world divided into tall or not tall men. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/159 "2016-06-24T03:08:44Z")
Honestly, attraction wise, being short is worse than being fat for the exact reason given by the OP. Attraction is generally based, subconsciously and consciously, on the person’s ability to parent children who will also be able to parent children. That’s what our genes command from us. A short person can be short for two main reasons, bad genes and bad nutrition, both of which speak volumes as to the suitability of a person to father children. If bad nutrition then the person, or that person’s parents, have for whatever reason been unable to acquire enough food to grow normally which means that man is less likely to be able to provide enough food for their own children. Or when shortness is due to bad genes it means that the person will almost never produce tall children. Also tallness being important in that it makes a man, faster, stronger, tend towards health, and is an indicator for intelligence. [1][2] Overweight on the other hand indicates that a person has been successful for a long time at acquiring more food with less work. In times where food was hard to get, e.g. 99.999% of human history, this was a strong indicator that a man was well suited to providing for their wife and children and that they were unlikely to starve or suffer from malnutrition. On top of that if I’m tall and fat and you’re fit and short, than if I go on a diet I won’t be fat any more but you’ll still be short. 1. [http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/tall-people-smarter-short-people-article-1.1710484](http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/tall-people-smarter-short-people-article-1.1710484) 2. [Why Are Taller People More Intelligent Than Shorter People? | Psychology Today](https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200901/why-are-taller-people-more-intelligent-shorter-people) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108/160 "2016-06-24T03:17:25Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > When you can stop seeing a world divided into hot or not hot women, you’ll stop feeling like you’re living in a world divided into tall or not tall men. This is a really concise way of explaining that we’re not playing a zero-sum game, here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-fat-woman-gets-to-see-a-short-guy-as-equivalent-a-form-of-sexual-affirmative-action/758108.md?page=9)