# Is that a woman in "The Last Supper"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 31, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967 "2003-12-31T17:30:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![teemingONE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b4bc9f/32.png) [@teemingONE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teemingONE)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/21 "2004-01-01T05:35:16Z")
It sure looks like a woman. Knowing what we know about Da Vinci we can’t rule out it is John or Mary. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/22 "2004-01-01T05:58:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KidCharlemagne \* > \*\*Why is it so hard to fathom that it might be Mary Magdalene? I just don’t see it as much of a stretch. Why are art historians so sure it’s John? \*\* There are twelve Apostles, all named, all male. In the painting (fresco), there is Jesus and twelve others. If one of them is Mary Magdalene, then why are there only 11 apostles? What happened to one of them? Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/23 "2004-01-01T12:38:42Z")
“Steak? Judas, how can you afford steak?” ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/24 "2004-01-01T16:19:51Z")
Da Vinci was gay? ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/25 "2004-01-01T17:40:14Z")
If anyone wants a relatively high res image of the last supper click on the thumbnail found in the link below. [http://www.artchive.com/artchive/L/leonardo/lastsupp.jpg.html](http://www.artchive.com/artchive/L/leonardo/lastsupp.jpg.html) ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/26 "2004-01-01T17:44:10Z")
I have to admit it looks like a woman to Jesus’ right, but then again, Jesus looks kind of womanly as well. ---
**Author:** ![beajerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@beajerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beajerry)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/27 "2004-01-01T18:01:31Z")
It’s great fun when ancient history is twisted into metaphor and then into art and from there into fact and now into a fiction novel. Wheeeeeeeeeeee! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/28 "2004-01-01T18:36:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scientologist \* > \*\*Did you notice the knife on the left side? There’s a guy with his hands up like “What’s this?” and right in front of him is a hand with a knife. The hand doesn’t belong to anyone else in the painting. > > And I think it IS a woman. Notice how Jesus has a red T-shirt and a blue superman cape, and the chick has a blue t-shirt and a red superman cape? (or is it the other way around?) They’re totally together. > > Duh. \*\* The hand with the knife quite obviously belongs to the guy in the blue robe and the white beard who has his hand on John/Mary’s shoulder. He has his hand on his hip with his thumb pointed backwards. I have a print of the painting in my kitchen and there’s no mystery at all when you see any kind of enlarged image. The wrist of the hand disappears into the sleeve of the guy’s blue robe. The hand is at a slightly awkward angle but it’s definitely _his_ hand. As to the OP, I don’t think it’s a woman, just somewhat of a feminized young male. DaVinci was rumored to have a fondness for that type if you know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/29 "2004-01-01T19:38:56Z")
Do we know who the other 11 are? I mean, obviously they’re the other 11 apostles, but do we know which is which? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/30 "2004-01-01T19:42:08Z")
For five hundred years people have looked at a painting of the twelve apostles and seen twelve apostles there. Then a charlatan comes along with an admitted book of fiction containing what every expert says is an extremely bad hodgepodge of fake history and half the population suddenly believes in a conspiracy despite all rational protestations. Don’t tell me there is no such thing as mass hysteria. We’re seeing it here with our own eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Ash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71c47a/32.png) [@Mr.Ash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Ash)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/31 "2004-01-01T19:59:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > \*\*Do we know who the other 11 are? I mean, obviously they’re the other 11 apostles, but do we know which is which? \*\* Another page for the site **alterego** linked to above has the best assumptions labeled. Click on the thumbnail [here](http://www.artchive.com/artchive/L/leonardo/lastsupp_apostles.jpg.html) . ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/32 "2004-01-01T20:40:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adam yax \* > \*\*Da Vinci was gay? \*\* It is pretty well accepted that Leonardo Da Vinci was a homosexual. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/33 "2004-01-02T00:56:37Z")
Like **alterego** says, Jesus himself doesn’t look especially masculine in that painting, so it’s not a stretch to think that a really young guy might look rather effeminate. The second guy from the left (ID’d as James Minor in the link above) looks somewhat girly too. ---
**Author:** ![Zahava424](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/76d3ee/32.png) [@Zahava424](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zahava424)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/34 "2004-01-02T01:31:45Z")
What I don’t understand is, even if Da Vinci painted a woman in the painting, why should that matter? Let’s say Da Vinci made it up to annoy people, or had an unconventional interpretation of the event, or whatever. Why should that have any major impact (or any impact at all) on our understanding of the actual event? ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/35 "2004-01-02T01:43:19Z")
Surely no one here thinks the painting is an actual representation of an event which may or may not have ever even occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Zahava424](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/76d3ee/32.png) [@Zahava424](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zahava424)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/36 "2004-01-02T01:45:06Z")
Exactly. So what, exactly, does Dan Brown think this proves, if it is true? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/37 "2004-01-02T03:37:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Why should that have any major impact (or any impact at all) on our understanding of the actual event? It doesn’t. But if any of the figures is a woman, then one of the apostles is missing. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/38 "2004-01-02T04:31:07Z")
That’s no woman. It’s clearly a ghost. Just look at the period clothing! ---
**Author:** ![monica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@monica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monica)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/39 "2004-01-02T04:51:56Z")
Another interesting thing is that Dan Brown pointed out that there was a “V” shape between Jesus and Mary-John. He said that that represented the “Holy Grail.” However, there are 3 different v-gaps in the painting. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967/40 "2004-01-02T05:02:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zahava424 \* > \*\*Exactly. So what, exactly, does Dan Brown think this proves, if it is true? \*\* He thinks it proves to be 4,300,000 copies in hardcover and an Amazon sales rank of 1. It proves to be an: Audio Cassette (Abridged) | Audio Cassette (Unabridged) | Audio CD (Abridged) | Audio CD (Unabridged) | Hardcover (Large Print) | e-book (Microsoft Reader) | and e-book (Adobe Reader) editions. It proves that truly massive paperback editions are forthcoming. It proves you will never go broke underestimating the taste of the American public. That’s proof enough for me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-a-woman-in-the-last-supper/221967.md?page=3)