# Is that how it's spelled? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 8, 2009, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426 "2009-12-08T09:22:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/61 "2009-12-09T16:14:48Z")
> [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > Vinegar. Eh? What’s unusual about that one? ---
**Author:** ![TerpBE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc8723/32.png) [@TerpBE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TerpBE)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/62 "2009-12-09T16:22:08Z")
I’ve seen many people who thought that “voila’” was spelled “walla” ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/63 "2009-12-09T16:23:01Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Nuptial. I don’t get it. How would YOU pronounce it? ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/64 "2009-12-09T16:37:52Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Eh? What’s unusual about that one? I (non-native speaker) used to say “vine” (as in grapevine) and then “gar”, two syllables in total. That’s what it looked like to me. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/65 "2009-12-09T16:41:37Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Not to mention Tagliapharo/Tolliver Or Luxury Yacht (pronounced Throathwobbler Mangrove). But even without Python, “yacht” would count. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/66 "2009-12-09T16:49:01Z")
Renege. THat last G should be pronounced J. But it’s not! ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/67 "2009-12-09T16:54:05Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Renege. > > THat last G should be pronounced J. Why? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/68 "2009-12-09T20:27:21Z")
> [@Xotan](#): > > Re English family names: > > A young man called Cholmondely Colquhoun > As a pet kept a hairy babelquhoun. > His mother said, 'Cholmondely, > Do you think it quite colmondeley > To feed your babelquhoun with a spelquhoun. > > Clue - Colquhoun is pronounced cohoon and Chol,ondeley is Chumley. Another Scottish name is Menzies, pronounced Mingus. The z is supposed to be a “yogh,” hence the weird pronunciation. Many Irish and Scottish language words look weird, until you realize that “h” is not the letter, but a character that modifies the letter before it. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_Astronaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Bad\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/69 "2009-12-09T22:02:03Z")
Pronunciation (the word itself - a little irony there). Or any word with -tion of course. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/70 "2009-12-09T22:42:12Z")
English (and certain other languages such as French) has favoured what’s called etymological spelling, in which spellings reflect the origin of the word rather than the pronunciation. For example, _knight_ is spelled that way because it indeed used to be pronounced _k-nikht_, more or less. (Most of our words beginning in _kn-_ have direct cognates in German and other Germanic languages where the _k_ is pronounced, such as _Knecht, Knie,_ and so forth.) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/71 "2009-12-09T22:44:47Z")
Some additional insight into the early stages of standardizing English spelling, from one of the first English printers: > [@](#): > > For we Englysshe men ben borne under the domynacyon of the mone, whiche is never stedfaste but ever waverynge, wexynge one season and waneth and dyscreaseth another season. And that comyn Englysshe that is spoken in one shyre varyeth from a-nother, in so moche that in my dayes happened that certayn marchauntes were in a ship in Tamyse for to have sayled over the see into Zelande, and, for lacke of wynde, thei taryed atte Forlond, and wente to lande for to refreshe them. And one of theym named Sheffelde, a mercer, cam in to an hows and axed for mete and specyally he axyd after eggys, and the goode wyf answerde that she could speke no Frenshe. And the marchaunt was angry, for he also coude speke no Frenshe, but wolde have hadde egges; and she understode hym not. And thenne at laste a-nother sayd that he wolde have eyren. Then the good wyf sayd that she understod hym wel. Loo, what sholde a man in thyse dayes now wryte, egges, or eyren? Certaynly it is hard to playse every man, by-cause of dyversite and chaunge of langage. > > - Preface to _Eneydos_, 1490 ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/72 "2009-12-09T22:47:04Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Why? 'Cause it’s followed by an “e.” ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/73 "2009-12-09T23:47:23Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > In a nice, large lecture hall, I gave an answer using the word “cashon.” Giggles kept erupting, but I was sure I had the correct answer — cashon cashon cashon, answered I. > > How else are you supposed to pronounce a word that ends in –tion?! :smack: So what word was it you were trying to say? Caution? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/74 "2009-12-10T00:16:14Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > So what word was it you were trying to say? Caution? Cation, which is pronounced cat-ion because it’s a kind of ion. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/75 "2009-12-10T00:20:45Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > comfortable I pronounce this as spelled. Virginians like you probably think I sound like a damyankee. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/76 "2009-12-10T00:48:45Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Some additional insight into the early stages of standardizing English spelling, from one of the first English printers: > > > [@](#): > > > > For we Englysshe men ben borne under the domynacyon of the mone, whiche is never stedfaste but ever waverynge, wexynge one season and waneth and dyscreaseth another season. And that comyn Englysshe that is spoken in one shyre varyeth from a-nother, in so moche that in my dayes happened that certayn marchauntes were in a ship in Tamyse for to have sayled over the see into Zelande, and, for lacke of wynde, thei taryed atte Forlond, and wente to lande for to refreshe them. And one of theym named Sheffelde, a mercer, cam in to an hows and axed for mete and specyally he axyd after eggys, and the goode wyf answerde that she could speke no Frenshe. And the marchaunt was angry, for he also coude speke no Frenshe, but wolde have hadde egges; and she understode hym not. And thenne at laste a-nother sayd that he wolde have eyren. Then the good wyf sayd that she understod hym wel. Loo, what sholde a man in thyse dayes now wryte, egges, or eyren? Certaynly it is hard to playse every man, by-cause of dyversite and chaunge of langage. > > > > - Preface to Eneydos, 1490 Pretty awesome, but I’m at a loss to figure out how this is about standardizing spelling. This shows that common English (as every other language, there’s nothing special about it and it has nothing to do with being born under the moon which is ever waxing and waning, I assure you) displayed variation; for instance, it had two words for eggs, one of which was ‘egges’, which was not understood in Forlond (i.e. Isle of Wight) and another was ‘eyren’ - a cognate, no doubt of Dutch ‘eieren’ and German ‘eier’, both meaning eggs - which _was_ understood there. Still, I think it is pretty hilarious, especially when ‘the goode wyf’ says she does not speak French. It also contains a neat example of literal spelling (or whatever the opposite of etymological spelling is): an hows, which shows that the ‘h’ was apparently not pronounced (this is also true for the ‘y’ sound at the beginning of words starting with ‘u’ - you’ll occasionally see ‘an university’). ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/77 "2009-12-10T05:15:45Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Cation, which is pronounced cat-ion because it’s a kind of ion. Yeah, but cat-ion would be pronounced cat-ion! For want of a hyphen, his dignity was lost … ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/78 "2009-12-10T11:04:21Z")
chamois. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/79 "2009-12-10T14:25:20Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > chamois. Cham_wow_! ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426/80 "2009-12-10T15:12:21Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > I just learned how to pronounce victuals. :smack: > [@silenus](#): > > Yeah, it is kinda unsettling when you realize that Jed, Granny and them were not only using a $12 word, but pronouncing it correctly as well! I was surprised about this, too, when I learned how to correctly pronounce victuals. I’d always pronounced it as its written, and thought that “vittles” was a slangy variation. > [@Gary\_T](#): > > **Chitterlings.** This is the a new one for me. If I’d seen this word, I would have pronounced it as it’s written. I have heard of “chitlins,” and even seen the word spelled this way. Again, I thought that this was a slangy variation. > [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > In a nice, large lecture hall, I gave an answer using the word “cashon.” Giggles kept erupting, but I was sure I had the correct answer — cashon cashon cashon, answered I. > > How else are you supposed to pronounce a word that ends in –tion?! :smack: 😃 You’d better learn how to pronounce “anion,” too. (Both cation and anion end with the pronunciation of “ion.”) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-how-its-spelled/520426.md?page=5)