# Is That TB Guy The Biggest Asshole Ever, Or What? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240 "2007-05-31T20:49:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/241 "2007-06-02T05:16:46Z")
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer] He was terrified that he’d never make it back. [/QUOTE] Awww poor baby, was he tewwified being in “Old Europe”? If he was so worried about his health he shouldn’t have gone to Europe in the first place. I find it truly scary that people are defending his actions. I simply can’t comprehend the mentality it takes to try to sneak back into a country when you’re told you’re barred from flying. There was no immediate danger of him dying, since the TB was supposedly not active (as evidenced by the fact he felt well enough to go to Europe in the first place). Why didn’t he ask more questions, get more advice about the TB instead of immediately bolting for the Czech republic? Surely his family could have chartered a small plane to get him back into the country if nothing else worked. There is absolutely no excuse for traveling and putting others at risk, no matter how minor that risk may be. That’s the point here. I’m sure everyone on that plane would agree. ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/242 "2007-06-02T05:37:45Z")
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer] I imagine there were two factors involved: 1. He thought he would die if he stayed in Italy. [/QUOTE] So… if you are afraid you might die, it’s excusable to potentially expose someone else to your disease, as long as you get treatment and survive?? :rolleyes: How is that different from “I’ll save my ass, but my actions will endanger yours”. They used to shoot people for cowardly behavior like that in the military. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/243 "2007-06-02T05:44:09Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] I don’t think the guy is Satan Incarnate and I never said he was. But he is thoughtless and completely selfish. His actions were dangerous and IMO completely inexcusable. I understand he feels bad now – he should. [/QUOTE] Feh… I think he feels really, really terrible about this whole thing only since he’s been identified by name and his photo’s been all over the media. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/244 "2007-06-02T05:58:36Z")
There seem to be a lot of discrepancies in all versions of this story, but this one jumped out at me and has me wondering. From the [linked article in the OP](http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/conditions/05/30/tb.flight/): > [@](#): > > It is the first time in 40 years the federal government has issued a quarantine order for an individual. Gerberding acknowledged that “we kind of had to make up a plan as we went along.” and > [@](#): > > No one at the disease agency recalls the agency issuing a quarantine order since 1963, when a possible case of exposure to smallpox emerged, she said. From this thread in MPSIMS on March 1, 2007, [Tuberculosis Quarantine](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=410619) > [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > Over here is the story of a young man who got some really nasty drug-resistant tuberculosis in Russia. He was diagnosed in Arizona and put into a quarantine facility and told to wear a mask if he went out in public. He didn’t. > > He went to local stores and restaurants unmasked. So the court ordered mandatory, supervised, quarantine. Maricopa County does not have a quarantine facility so they put him the prison ward. Since he is housed with Really Bad People, he cannot have an internet or phone connection. The situation would drive most of us nuts. Perhaps they’re making a distinction between a federally-issued quarantine and a state-issued quarantine? Since the guy got the TB in Russia and could presumably travel back, wouldn’t that distinction just be a technical one? I found **Jodi** ’s comment in that thread very interesting. > [@Jodi](#): > > Historians taking a sympathetic view of Mary point out that she was not trained to do anything other than cook and that she received no social support services after her initial release, which is quite true. But she still remains the best-known example of what can happen when you trust an infected individual to both understand the gravity of their condition and to be responsible enough to never risk exposing another person – even if it would be better and easier for for the patient to risk exposing others, and even if the patient can rationalize that the actual risk of infection is surely very low. One would think that things would change after that example–that either the gravity of their situation was explained better for them or that actual restrictions would be placed on these individuals. But I guess things haven’t changed all that much. There seems to be a familiar theme here. The government claiming that it told the individual the severity of the issue, the individual either claiming not to understand or not understanding and then the government behaving in an ad hoc manner since there were no provisions for this kind of issue since they weren’t prepared for it. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/245 "2007-06-02T09:50:42Z")
[QUOTE=Rusalka] So… if you are afraid you might die, it’s excusable to potentially expose someone else to your disease, as long as you get treatment and survive?? [/quote] Depends how much risk is involved. Anytime you exceed the speed limit in your car, you are imposing risk on other people. Heck, anytime you drive anywhere you are imposing risk on other people. ---
**Author:** ![Lush\_Puppy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Lush\_Puppy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lush_Puppy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/246 "2007-06-02T10:02:30Z")
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer] I’m most certainly not defending everything he did, I just refuse to believe the guy is as evil as everyone is dying to believe. Having met him, I know that he isn’t. [/QUOTE] I don’t think he’s evil, I just think he’s a fucking dipshit. “Evil” would be coughing on every single one of those passengers intending to make them sick as well. I am curious… did you meet him before or after he was all over the news? It would seem to me that Andrew Pecker would likely play the cherub to everyone he meets from here on out. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/247 "2007-06-02T10:47:08Z")
I probably missed it, but when he found out in January, was it from a routine physical or what exactly that lead to finding out he had TB? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/248 "2007-06-02T11:04:52Z")
[QUOTE=Shirley Ujest] I probably missed it, but when he found out in January, was it from a routine physical or what exactly that lead to finding out he had TB? [/QUOTE] He was being examined for “an unrelated matter.” So he didn’t go to the doc with symptoms of TB. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/249 "2007-06-02T11:57:46Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana] TB is not a sexually transmitted disease. [/QUOTE] Not as usually defined, but you certainly could pick it up from kissing an infected person, and most people engage in spit-swapping as part of sexual intercourse. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/250 "2007-06-02T12:01:45Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] What exactly was done in the way of “preparing to send the CDC plane to Europe”? Sounds to me like they told the guy to go to hell and are now trying to cover their own asses. [/QUOTE] Well, aside from the usual government bullshit of filling out forms in quintuplicate and the like, at a minimum you’d need to get a couple of pilots qualified to fly to Europe with the appropriate valid passports and visas and plan the flight. In addition, you’d probably need medical personnel and equipment to minimize the possibility of spreading infection to the flight crew. You’d probably also need to make arrangements on the other end as you are talking about transporting someone with potentially deadly, infectious disease and I’m sure Italy would have had something to say about the matter. On a holiday weekend on the US side. 24-48 hours doesn’t strike me as unreasonable, particularly as the person they were going to pick up wasn’t in imminent danger of dying. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/251 "2007-06-02T12:14:48Z")
[QUOTE=Broomstick] Well, aside from the usual government bullshit of filling out forms in quintuplicate and the like, at a minimum you’d need to get a couple of pilots qualified to fly to Europe with the appropriate valid passports and visas and plan the flight. In addition, you’d probably need medical personnel and equipment to minimize the possibility of spreading infection to the flight crew. You’d probably also need to make arrangements on the other end as you are talking about transporting someone with potentially deadly, infectious disease and I’m sure Italy would have had something to say about the matter. On a holiday weekend on the US side. 24-48 hours doesn’t strike me as unreasonable, particularly as the person they were going to pick up wasn’t in imminent danger of dying. [/QUOTE] But what exactly was done? Anyone can claim that they were “preparing” to do something. ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/252 "2007-06-02T12:28:13Z")
[QUOTE=Lush Puppy] I don’t think he’s evil, I just think he’s a fucking dipshit. “Evil” would be coughing on every single one of those passengers intending to make them sick as well. I am curious… did you meet him before or after he was all over the news? It would seem to me that Andrew Pecker would likely play the cherub to everyone he meets from here on out. [/QUOTE] Before. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/253 "2007-06-02T16:44:32Z")
Why am I not at all surprised that someone who knows the guy has shown up in this thread? I wouldn’t be at all shocked if he’s already hired a publicist to make sure he isn’t tarred and feathered when he is released from quarantine. He knows he fucked up LARGE and wants to make damn sure he doesn’t pay any untoward social consequences for it. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/254 "2007-06-02T16:46:56Z")
I think there’s enough blame to go around here, but I still have one question, the answer to which will put him firmly into the “Biggest Asshole” or “What” category for me: He was informed that he had TurboTB and was instructed to report immediately to a hospital. He had been told previously that TurboTB would kill him if he didn’t get to Denver RIGHT AWAY. Therefore, he knew the health risk TurboTB posed, and by extension the _risk he posed to others._ If he really thought he _had_ to travel immediately, and went to all the trouble of planning out the trip so he could fly into Canada to get around the ‘no fly’ rules, **did he at least wear a mask?** ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/255 "2007-06-02T16:58:04Z")
[QUOTE=lisacurl] Why am I not at all surprised that someone who knows the guy has shown up in this thread? I wouldn’t be at all shocked if he’s already hired a publicist to make sure he isn’t tarred and feathered when he is released from quarantine. He knows he fucked up LARGE and wants to make damn sure he doesn’t pay any untoward social consequences for it. [/QUOTE] What the fuck are you talking about? I said in my first post that I hardly have any contact with him. I didn’t know his last name until he showed up on the news. What a piece of garbage post. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/256 "2007-06-02T17:09:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Why am I not at all surprised that someone who knows the guy has shown up in this thread? I wouldn’t be at all shocked if he’s already hired a publicist to make sure he isn’t tarred and feathered when he is released from quarantine. He knows he fucked up LARGE and wants to make damn sure he doesn’t pay any untoward social consequences for it. That may be, but I really doubt – with the greatest respect to the _Chicago Reader_ and the SDMB in particular – that he’d waste his money on hiring a guy to find message board threads that refer to him and reply with mildly defensive comments. If nothing else, he’s gonna need to save his money for the inevitable lawsuit that will occur if others turn out to be infected due to his dumbass behavior. Anyway, I don’t see anything that smacks of “PR Shill” in **Capatalist Lion Tamer** ’s posts. That type of poster is usually much more blatantly partisan and defensive. (Also, any guy who has a screenname that uses a semi-obscure _News Radio_ reference – even a misspelled one – can’t be a mere shill. It’s just not possible. ;)) ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/257 "2007-06-02T17:10:08Z")
From today’s AJC: > [@](#): > > He’s about as noninfectious as you can be," said Dr. Charles Daley, chief of infectious disease at National Jewish Medical and Research Center, where Andrew Speaker is undergoing treatment for extensively drug-resistant tuberculosis. “It’s gotten attention undeservedly — at least in terms of this fear,” Daley said. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/258 "2007-06-02T17:10:51Z")
**Capatalist Lion Tamer** has been a guest on this board since before this story broke. ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/259 "2007-06-02T17:11:25Z")
[QUOTE=choie] That may be, but I really doubt – with the greatest respect to the _Chicago Reader_ and the SDMB in particular – that he’d waste his money on hiring a guy to find message board threads that refer to him and reply with mildly defensive comments. If nothing else, he’s gonna need to save his money for the inevitable lawsuit that will occur if others turn out to be infected due to his dumbass behavior. Anyway, I don’t see anything particularly PR-esque in **Capatalist Lion Tamer** ’s posts. That type of poster is usually much more blatantly partisan and defensive. (Also, any guy who has a screenname that uses a semi-obscure _News Radio_ reference – even a misspelled one – can’t be a mere shill. It’s just not possible. ;)) [/QUOTE] You’re the first person who has gotten that (or admitted it, at least). Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/260 "2007-06-02T17:17:50Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] **Capatalist Lion Tamer** has been a guest on this board since before this story broke. [/QUOTE] Thanks. I’ve been lurking since about 2000 (I may have even been a poster back when it was free, I don’t remember). I thought I’d give it a whirl & think about plunking down the 15 bucks, but I’m finding that I enjoy the arguments & discussions a bit more when I’m not a part of them. My wife is 9 months pregnant, yet I found myself thinking about this thread last night lying in the bed. Maybe this posting thing isn’t for me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240.md?page=14)