# Is That TB Guy The Biggest Asshole Ever, Or What? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240 "2007-05-31T20:49:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/321 "2007-06-02T21:31:02Z")
[QUOTE=Rusalka] How about one like this: § 120.25 Reckless endangerment in the first degree ``` A person is guilty of reckless endangerment in the first degree when, ``` under circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life, he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to another person. [/quote] If he truly believed that the risk was minimal, then I don’t think they could convict him of that. Also, the statute speaks of “grave risk of death” not “remote possibility of death.” In any event, the question is whether Speaker broke any laws by flying to Canada as opposed to the US. Here are the two closest laws I could find: > [@](#): > > § 1073. Flight to avoid prosecution or giving testimony > Whoever moves or travels in interstate or foreign commerce with intent either > (1) to avoid prosecution, or custody or confinement after conviction, under the laws of the place from which he flees, for a crime, or an attempt to commit a crime, punishable by death or which is a felony under the laws of the place from which the fugitive flees, or > (2) to avoid giving testimony in any criminal proceedings in such place in which the commission of an offense punishable by death or which is a felony under the laws of such place, is charged, or > (3) to avoid service of, or contempt proceedings for alleged disobedience of, lawful process requiring attendance and the giving of testimony or the production of documentary evidence before an agency of a State empowered by the law of such State to conduct investigations of alleged criminal activities, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. For the purposes of clause (3) of this paragraph, the term “State” includes a State of the United States, the District of Columbia, and any commonwealth, territory, or possession of the United States. and > [@](#): > > § 758. High speed flight from immigration checkpoint > > Whoever flees or evades a checkpoint operated by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, or any other Federal law enforcement agency, in a motor vehicle and flees Federal, State, or local law enforcement agents in excess of the legal speed limit shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than five years, or both. But it doesn’t seem like either one would apply. ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/322 "2007-06-02T21:33:32Z")
[QUOTE=Rusalka] Also note, that these laws don’t give you the right to endanger others just because you think you might die. Motivation is not mentioned. Saving your own skin is not an excuse. [/QUOTE] I think you’d have a very difficult time penning reckless endangerment on someone who is “about as noninfectious as you can be”, according to the chief of infectious diseases as the world’s foremost TB treatment center. ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/323 "2007-06-02T21:56:30Z")
If that’s true why did they bar him from flying? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/324 "2007-06-02T22:01:15Z")
There’s potentially a big difference between (a) violating a safety rule, regulation, or instruction and (b) imposing a grave risk of death on others under circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/325 "2007-06-02T22:24:52Z")
**Mr. Clawbane** brought up the idea that NATO nations, and/or members of the UN would have laws about their borders in regard not only to various kinds of criminals, but also those who are ill with an infectious disease, as well as what things may, or may not be brought into their nation. ETA: In other words, it is probably not only international law, but also covered in statutes set up in various countries. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/326 "2007-06-02T22:38:13Z")
[QUOTE=Zabali\_Clawbane] **Mr. Clawbane** brought up the idea that NATO nations, and/or members of the UN would have laws about their borders in regard not only to various kinds of criminals, but also those who are ill with an infectious disease, as well as what things may, or may not be brought into their nation. ETA: In other words, it is probably not only international law, but also covered in statutes set up in various countries. [/QUOTE] Which nation and which statute? Title numbers, section numbers, and links please. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/327 "2007-06-02T22:47:04Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Which nation and which statute? Title numbers, section numbers, and links please. [/QUOTE] Law Dopers, would you be able to dig, and verify if what I posited is correct at all? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/328 "2007-06-02T22:50:03Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] How have I mis-stated anyone’s argument? [/QUOTE] Go back and read posts #275, 276 and your response in post #280 (which I quoted above) I didn’t say mis-stated I said [straw man](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html) :rolleyes: Man there some powerful stupid in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/329 "2007-06-02T23:27:45Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] Go back and read posts #275, 276 and your response in post #280 (which I quoted above) [/quote] I re-read them. **Squink** made the ridiculous assertion that planes are designed not to crash. His argument is that this makes the risk of a plane crash fundamentally different from the risk of contracting a disease from a fellow passenger. One thing depends on dumb luck, the other is . . . well . . . different somehow. His argument is ridiculous. If you have the bad luck of being on a plane where the pilot decides to crash the plane, then you die. It’s that simple. I wouldn’t be surprised if more people have died from being on planes where the pilot decided to crash the plane than died from contracting tuburculosis from a fellow passenger. > [@](#): > > I didn’t say mis-stated I said [straw man](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html) :rolleyes: Ummm, yeah. This is from your own cite: > [@](#): > > The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person’s actual position and substitutes a **distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented** version of that position. If I didn’t mis-state anyone’s argument, then I didn’t distort, exaggerate, or misrepresent anyone’s position either. > [@](#): > > Man there some powerful stupid in this thread. And there’s the unintentional irony of the week. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![cookeze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@cookeze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cookeze)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/330 "2007-06-02T23:34:03Z")
I was diagnosed with TB in May 1975. I had been taking prednisone for another problem, which we later found out was polyarteritis nodosa (PAN). The TB was most likely something I was already carrying around in my body and was activated by the steroids. TB Andy isn’t showing any symptoms. Mine, however, were spectacular. I had a fever that lasted for 5 months. It went thru a 2 day cycle. Starting on the first day my temperature would slowly rise until the evening of the second day, when it would be about 102 or 103. Then I’d feel like I was freezing to death and I’d shiver for a few hours and the temp would spike. Then the shivering would turn off as if someone had flicked a switch. I’d get a drenching sweat and my temp would rapidly fall to below normal. The next morning it would start over again. As time went on the peak fever slowly increased. Before I got treatment it was usually in the 105 to 106 range. There were 3 occasions where the temp was measured at 107.6. When I sweated the liquid would drip off me like I’d just stepped out of a shower. I learned to love ice and really cold showers. And I drank a lot of water. Mostly this happened in the hospital or at home. On the few occasions when I was out, those who witnessed it became somewhat alarmed. I remember one time where a construction worker threatened me—I don’t know what he said because the PAN had recently deafened me—but I told him not to do anything stupid or I’d bite him. I was in a bad mood that day. He left me alone. Disease, or the prospect of it, scares people. So my doctors didn’t know what was wrong and I got an appointment at Mayo Clinic. It’s in the middle of nowhere so I flew. I guess that makes me a contender for biggest asshole on the planet. Do I get a plaque or just a measly ribbon? I don’t know if I was bothering anyone else on the flight—I was too busy shivering to pay much attention. After 3 weeks they did an exploratory surgery and found that my spleen was completely destroyed by TB. They also tested my sputum. I was started on the usual anti-TB meds and took those for 2 years. However the fever continued for another month and a muscle biopsy showed I had polyarteritis. That was the more serious problem. The docs said I was not a danger to anyone at any time and there were no restrictions on me, ever. I was never told to wear a mask and no one wore one around me. Besides, doctors do not have any special legal powers. They can make suggestions. To force you they need a judge. One out of 3 people carry the bacillus, but nothing happens, it just sits there. It’s only when your immunity is compromised that the TB might become an active disease. I never had a problem with it after treatment started. The other disease was a problem. It could cause almost any symptom. If you read about it on the internet you could drive yourself crazy. What I learned was that you deal with any problems as they arise, then you go on with your life. You don’t worry about the other things that MIGHT happen. There must be a hard line between what is a real problem and letting your imagination get the best of you. In this particular case what I see is a young man who has a problem that may or may not cause him a great deal of trouble. At the moment he is the only one who has a real problem. I wish him the best of luck. Maybe someone else will be affected. I don’t know. But what can happen will happen. Why don’t we wait to see what it is? There is something wrong with the news business. They push stories before they know what is happening. They can’t wait for answers, they just report speculation. These are the same people who brought us the summer of the shark attack. Remember that silliness? There was a period when they had half of America seriously considering whether Gary Condit killed some poor girl. And recently we’ve seen the case of of a hard working student who was savagely gang raped by a bunch of elitist, entitled, spoiled, rich white guys at Duke. Right? Isn’t that what happened? Well, if you go try and lynch the guy, I hope he takes a bite out of some of you before you get him. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/331 "2007-06-02T23:36:39Z")
**cookeze** , your case is different in that you didn’t know you had TB. TB Andy knew he had an infectious disease. Chill! ---
**Author:** ![cookeze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@cookeze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cookeze)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/332 "2007-06-02T23:44:22Z")
His doctor said he is not infectious. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/333 "2007-06-02T23:48:12Z")
[QUOTE=cookeze] His doctor said he is not infectious. [/QUOTE] You are taking _his_ claims at face value, you do realize this, right? Why can’t others choose not to, without your wishing they get bit? :dubious: I don’t believe that his doctor said anything of the kind to him. I believe he was told the opposite, and I believe it will be proven. The CDC/his doctor wouldn’t have told him that, if they suspected he had XDR-TB. They’d have cautioned him to be careful. ---
**Author:** ![cookeze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@cookeze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cookeze)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/334 "2007-06-02T23:57:50Z")
Actually, no, I am not going to take his word for it. Or his doctor’s. I will believe the disease. Show me the ones who got it from him. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/335 "2007-06-03T00:02:40Z")
Have you ever considered the idea that obviously the disease _is_ transmittable to some degree, and that this is shown in the very fact that TB Andy has it? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/336 "2007-06-03T00:16:22Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] I re-read them. **Squink** made the ridiculous assertion that planes are designed not to crash. [/quote] So you are arguing that planes are designed to crash? That would be the other side of his argument. Please tell me just how an airplane, or for that matter the design of the air traffic control system in the United States makes surviving a plane flight “dumb luck”. Show your work. > [@](#): > > His argument is that this makes the risk of a plane crash fundamentally different from the risk of contracting a disease from a fellow passenger. One thing depends on dumb luck, the other is . . . well . . . different somehow. > > His argument is ridiculous. If you have the bad luck of being on a plane where the pilot decides to crash the plane, then you die. It’s that simple. OK, I will type this slowly so that you can understand. Look closely at the following two pictures and see if you can see any differences between them. The differences may be subtle, so take you time. There will be a short quiz when you are finished. [Figure #1](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/boeing757/images/757_3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/boeing757/boeing7574.html&h=339&w=600&sz=45&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=IpYno4P56vNvPM:&tbnh=76&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3D757%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG) [Figure #2.](http://www.avjobs.com/careers/Career_images/pilot34.jpg) **Pop Quiz** 1. Figure #1 is a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ 2. Figure #2 is a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ (answer key) 1. Airplane 2. Pilot If you were able to answer the above quiz correctly, then you have proved that you know the difference between an airplane and its pilot. In this case you have made a straw man argument about the safety of commercial airlines flights. If you got the quiz wrong, then I apologize as you have the IQ of a house plant. > [@](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if more people have died from being on planes where the pilot decided to crash the plane than died from contracting tuburculosis from a fellow passenger. Well don’t bother with your previous “cite” as those were not the pilots that flew the planes into the towers, and the Pentagon. Thanks for playing. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/337 "2007-06-03T00:27:58Z")
> [@](#): > > So you are arguing that planes are designed to crash? That would be the other side of his argument. Since you are such an expert on logical fallacies, you might want to look up “false dichotomy” See, it’s not the case that the only 2 choices are (a) planes are designed not to crash or (b) planes are designed to crash. > [@](#): > > In this case you have made a straw man argument about the safety of commercial airlines flights. How? How I have I mis-stated anyone’s argument? Oh that’s right, setting up a straw man means that you **misrepresent** somebody’s argument - it doesn’t mean that you **mis-state** it. :rolleyes: Ok, how have I **misrepresented** anyone’s argument? > [@](#): > > Well don’t bother with your previous “cite” as those were not the pilots that flew the planes into the towers, and the Pentagon. Thanks for playing I use the word “pilot” to include a terrorist who happens to be “piloting” a plane he or she has hijacked. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/338 "2007-06-03T00:29:11Z")
I think I should add that it doesnt seem as though anyone’s tried to answer the question I asked a few posts back: How much risk is reasonable to impose on other people? ---
**Author:** ![cookeze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@cookeze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cookeze)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/339 "2007-06-03T00:30:12Z")
[QUOTE=Zabali\_Clawbane] Have you ever considered the idea that obviously the disease _is_ transmittable to some degree, and that this is shown in the very fact that TB Andy has it? [/QUOTE] Actually, that is a good point that needs to be addressed. The person who gave him the disease would have been in a different stage of it. This doesn’t necessarily mean that Andy is in a position to give it to someone else. My position is that speculation should not be used. He either did or he didn’t, whatever. Only by waiting will we find out. I mean, he’s locked up, right? He ain’t going anywhere soon. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2007, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/340 "2007-06-03T00:30:49Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] I think I should add that it doesnt seem as though anyone’s tried to answer the question I asked a few posts back: How much risk is reasonable to impose on other people? [/QUOTE] That depends on each individual circumstance. In this case, the risk was too great. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240.md?page=18)