# Is That TB Guy The Biggest Asshole Ever, Or What? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240 "2007-05-31T20:49:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/41 "2007-05-31T23:03:28Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] He is the first person quarantined under the federal authority of the Public Health Service Act since about 1963 (can’t find the cite right now, but I _think_ it was like '63). He was escorted to the hospital by U.S. Marshals and he will remain there until the quarantine order is lifted. To be fair, I don’t think there’s any reason he would not be compliant with treatment. [/QUOTE] I hadn’t heard the bit about the quarantine. Some life, eh? Does he get conjugal visits from his new wife? How does he make a living? I don’t have any sympathy for the guy and what he did, but I think none of us would look forward to a year in quarantine. Given that status, I am sure he will be compliant. ETA:\*\* monstro\*\*–you have a point. We would all like to say that we would not do such and such, but until we are faced with X, how do we know for sure? Didn’t the New Yorker or some mag do a piece on the other guy who is in quaratine? It’s ringing a dim bell over here. Ah-thanks, **Squink**! So, what good are Do Not Fly lists, anyway? Makes you wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/42 "2007-05-31T23:07:14Z")
What most pisses me is that he went to Italy, one of the world’s biggest airport crossroads. That exposes people from Morocco and sub-Saharan Africa and Asia and other points all over the world where there is no such thing as decent affordable healthcare to a fatal disease. I hope he rots in hell next to the flight-attendant who so expediated the global spread of AIDS (and continued to do so after he knew he was infected). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/43 "2007-05-31T23:10:20Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] Lemme tell you what _else_ pisses me off about this: I’m a great believer in the sanctity of rights, including liberty of movement, but this is some serious shit and there is no better justification for severely curtailing ALL of our civil liberties than for an asshole like this to demonstrate just how selfish and irresponsible people can be EVEN WHEN THEY HAVE ALL THE FACTS. And even when they are _supposedly_ among the smartest “best and brightest” of Americans. Yeah, the gubmint _didn’t_ lock him up on the mere _suspicion_ that he had this horrible strain of TB, because they weren’t _sure_ and surely he’d be responsible enough not to endanger others until he knew, much less _after_ he knew, right? Wrong. Expect the next guy to be taken under guard to the closest hospital or jail with a negative pressure cell, regardless of the constitutional implications. There is almost certain to be some trampling of rights in the name of public health in the future, and _this_ asshole is Exhibit A for why that will be argued necessary. If you’re a freakin’ _lawyer_ and you are explicitly _told_ not to travel and you _do it anyway_ because you are a _selfish fuck_, no one will be trusted in the future. [/QUOTE] Damn, Jodi, I like your pitting but that’s jumping of the bridge just to spite your lover. It is BECAUSE we are entitled to our civil liberties that he was not entitled to endanger people with his disease. It is a coercion in both ways: first, it is a threat to the life and health of others; and second, it is deceitful not to inform others of a contagion that you know you have. Freedom means the absence of coercion. Taking away OUR liberties won’t hold HIM accountable for what he did, and it won’t make dealing with idiots like him any easier or better in the future. The only person who should be punished is he. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/44 "2007-05-31T23:11:34Z")
[QUOTE=RandMcnally] Yeah, I personally think he needs to be charged with something. Like you said, it’s not like he didn’t know what he was doing. I knew full well that he would be putting other people’s lives at risk, yet he did it anyway. Jackass. [/QUOTE] I say charge him with failure to have an axe handle in the ass, and then rectify the situation immediately with a “Paul Bunyon” model. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/45 "2007-05-31T23:18:57Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] What most pisses me is that he went to Italy, one of the world’s biggest airport crossroads. That exposes people from Morocco and sub-Saharan Africa and Asia and other points all over the world where there is no such thing as decent affordable healthcare to a fatal disease. I hope he rots in hell next to the flight-attendant who so expediated the global spread of AIDS (and continued to do so after he knew he was infected). [/QUOTE] That’s what this reminds me of! Thanks–I thought there was some jerk who spread AIDS knowingly, back in the day, but I wasn’t sure if it was an urban myth. I hadn’t thought of Italy that way, but now I am just sick. Let us hope that his low level of infectiousness makes this a near miss. (did anyone else hear that one doctor on NPR call it “infectivity”?). The question is: what do we DO about cases like this? There have to be thousands of people like him walking around with STDs, HIV, TB etc and either don’t know it, know it and can’t get help or won’t get help and others who can’t or won’t stay on their med regimes. What to do? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/46 "2007-05-31T23:20:26Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] What to do? [/QUOTE] Take away their rights and liberty. That’s what they did to others. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/47 "2007-05-31T23:20:55Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Hmm. Make him call off the honeymoon, and piss off my daughter, or let him go on the honeymoon and have him expose hundreds of people (including that self-same daughter) to a deadly virus. Jeez, that _is_ a tough choice, isn’t it? [/QUOTE] Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. Hell, I might very well be trying to call off the wedding, especially since this guy is obviously a self-centered prick of the 1st order. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/48 "2007-05-31T23:21:47Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Damn, Jodi, I like your pitting but that’s jumping of the bridge just to spite your lover. It is BECAUSE we are entitled to our civil liberties that he was not entitled to endanger people with his disease. It is a coercion in both ways: first, it is a threat to the life and health of others; and second, it is deceitful not to inform others of a contagion that you know you have. Freedom means the absence of coercion. Taking away OUR liberties won’t hold HIM accountable for what he did, and it won’t make dealing with idiots like him any easier or better in the future. The only person who should be punished is he. [/QUOTE] I’m not talking about a broad society-wide removal of civil liberties. I’m talking about the likelihood of infringement upon the civil liberties of the NEXT guy. You think after this guy has exposed 100’s of people to XDR-TB, then _next_ person in his shoes isn’t going to find his civil liberties just a wee bit more confined? The CDC could have quarantined this guy earlier than they did. This is speculation on my part, but I suspect they didn’t quarantine him out of a combination of hope that he would do the right thing (not go; not expose others) and fear that he would take legal action if they did, since he’s a lawyer and they hadn’t confirmed the XDR nature of the TB yet. So they decided _not_ to quarantine him, and look what he did. I guaran-damn-tee you they will not make the same mistake again. So you can certainly talk about who _should_ be punished in such a case (just him!), but that will not change the almost certainty that the next person will suffer for this idiot’s irresponsibility. Or, in your Libertarian-speak, it is the fact of his deceit (which you deem a coercion) that will justify greater and speedier governmental coercion next time. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/49 "2007-05-31T23:26:56Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] How does he make a living? [/QUOTE] Not only that, how is his quarantine being paid for? Is it subsidized by taxes or is it insurance? I’d think it’s taxes, but I’m not sure how it’s handled. I was sitting in a room with too many televisions yesterday so I didn’t hear much, but CNN sent a reporter outside TB Mary’s room for an interview. I could have sworn I heard him say something about his civil liberties and violation, but I can’t find a transcript. Did anyone else hear this or see the interview? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/50 "2007-05-31T23:27:53Z")
Well, the people he infected will be punished enough already. He should have to make them whole. They should not be allowed to fly now because they, too, would initiate force. And as for governmental force, it should never be coercive — only defensive and responsive. It should have stopped him from flying in the first place, but that’s not coercion; it is a forceful response to HIS coercion. ---
**Author:** ![brownie55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f14d63/32.png) [@brownie55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownie55)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/51 "2007-05-31T23:28:54Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] And this **asshole** is a **personal injury lawyer**! I hope his fellow passengers sue his ass off. :mad: [/QUOTE] Redundant! ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/52 "2007-05-31T23:30:20Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] I hadn’t thought of Italy that way, but now I am just sick. Let us hope that his low level of infectiousness makes this a near miss. (**did anyone else hear that one doctor on NPR call it “infectivity”?).** [/QUOTE] I think it might be an appicable word in this case. **Infectivity** : The proportion of persons exposed to an infectious agent who become infected by it. See [www.medterms.com](http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=24094). ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/53 "2007-05-31T23:40:10Z")
I can ALMOST see how to construe it as not a completely assholish action. Since he didn’t know that he had the resistent version, it sounds like testing was at a pretty rudimentary phase before he left - he may have assumed he had something much less serious. How much education was he given about the disease? It isn’t very contagious as noted, and he had this whole wedding planned and paid for, and all these people flying out for it, it would be a pretty drastic step to cancel it all over a mild recommendation not to fly. Taking all those extra flights while IN Europe, however… ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/54 "2007-05-31T23:44:35Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] {in the thread title} Is That TB Guy The Biggest Asshole Ever, Or What? [/quote] He’s not even close to what. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/55 "2007-05-31T23:44:49Z")
[QUOTE=Helen’s Eidolon] I can ALMOST see how to construe it as not a completely assholish action. Since he didn’t know that he had the resistent version, it sounds like testing was at a pretty rudimentary phase before he left - he may have assumed he had something much less serious. How much education was he given about the disease? It isn’t very contagious as noted, and he had this whole wedding planned and paid for, and all these people flying out for it, it would be a pretty drastic step to cancel it all over a mild recommendation not to fly. Taking all those extra flights while IN Europe, however… [/QUOTE] He was given plenty of education and strongly advised by the CDC not to travel, even before he was confirmed as having the more dangerous version of the disease. Your general points taken into consideration, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/56 "2007-05-31T23:45:19Z")
Am I the only one that can see pwecious pwincess with dewy eyes and a pouty lip begging Daddy to let them go to Italy? I should probably not be so cynical. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/57 "2007-05-31T23:51:59Z")
deleted. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/58 "2007-06-01T00:06:10Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] …The CDC could have quarantined this guy earlier than they did. This is speculation on my part, but I suspect they didn’t quarantine him out of a combination of hope that he would do the right thing (not go; not expose others) and fear that he would take legal action if they did, since he’s a lawyer and they hadn’t confirmed the XDR nature of the TB yet. So they decided _not_ to quarantine him, and look what he did… [/QUOTE] This is also speculation on MY part, but my WAG is they really couldn’t have quarantined him earlier. Frankly, it’s not right to lock someone up because you fear they might be contagious. I think it is appropriate that someone not be involuntarily detained until tests results confirm a danger. Under normal circumstances I would agree with you that this will not be allowed to repeat, that the hammer will come down on high risk carriers earlier. However, with the current clowns in the administration running around dismantling essential government agencies ability to respond, I’m sure it will happen again and again. The CDC will rewrite its rules in light of the “new realities” :rolleyes: of the Patriot Act, and we will sweep up dozens or hundreds of potential infectees. Welcome to “Guantanamo ER”. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/59 "2007-06-01T00:11:42Z")
Samipro: > [@](#): > > What most pisses me is that he went to Italy, one of the world’s biggest airport crossroads. Is Italy really bigger in that way than most of the world’s other big, cosmopolitan cities? I can’t imagine there are many countries not served by New York, London, Paris or Tokyo. (Not that Italy is a city. I assume Rome is the crossroads in question. The articles only mention Paris and Prague, so I can’t tell for sure what his Italian destination was.) ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/60 "2007-06-01T00:25:42Z")
I’m afraid that with all of the hatred directed at “TB Andy,” one of the supreme dinguses of this story won’t get his fair share of ire. That’s right, I’m talking about the U.S. Border agent who LET THE GUY THROUGH. > [@AP news story](#): > > The unidentified inspector explained that he “was no doctor,” but that the infected man seemed perfectly healthy. That’s right, you fucking moron - you’re no doctor, so it’s really NOT YOUR PLACE to make a decicious because, “duhh, he SEEMED healthy, huh-huh!” My favorite detail - > [@AP story](#): > > The inspector ran Speaker’s passport through a computer, and a warning - including instructions to hold the traveler, don a protective mask in dealing with him, and telephone health authorities - popped up, officials said. About a minute later, Speaker was instead cleared to continue on his journey, according to officials familiar with the records. Amazing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240.md?page=4)