# Is That TB Guy The Biggest Asshole Ever, Or What? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240 "2007-05-31T20:49:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/601 "2007-06-07T20:43:42Z")
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer] When all else fails, just start throwing rocks. Nice philosophy. [/QUOTE] Actually, it’s called picking your battles wisely or not trying to teach a pig to sing. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/602 "2007-06-07T20:43:50Z")
By the way, I’m still waiting for a cite for the proposition that Speaker was promised a plane in a few days. ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/603 "2007-06-07T20:45:49Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] Actually, it’s called picking your battles wisely or not trying to teach a pig to sing. [/QUOTE] Next time you pick a battle, try getting the elementary facts correct before picking up a handful of rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/604 "2007-06-07T20:51:09Z")
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer] Next time you pick a battle, try getting the elementary facts correct before picking up a handful of rocks. [/QUOTE] You _do_ realize that my post you quoted before ths was _not_ directed at you, don’t you? And I _did_ have my facts correct, at least the ones that matter, namely that the guy _knew_ he had TB when he decided to leave the US. How long he knew about it before he left is immaterial. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/605 "2007-06-07T20:52:36Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] By the way, I’m still waiting for a cite for the proposition that Speaker was promised a plane in a few days. [/QUOTE] Although the wording in this CBS News story isn’t clear, it seems to indicate options were being bandied about with Speaker when he panicked: "When contacted in Europe and told the latest diagnosis, Speaker concluded that the only lifesaving treatment available was back in the United States. But the CDC jets had not been used in a patient-retrieval situation like that, and CDC officials discussed other, more customary options, such as a private air ambulance or a U.S. military transport. In a conference call with reporters last week, CDC Director Dr. Julie Gerberding noted additional legal and diplomatic issues. It had to be worked out whether Italian officials had medical authority over Speaker while he was in Rome, she said." From here: [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/05/ap/national/main2890881.shtml](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/05/ap/national/main2890881.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/606 "2007-06-07T20:54:38Z")
[QUOTE=Kokopilau] Not for TB. The high-infective form of TB is the active form, only low-infective TB is dormant. This means that if your TB is serious and active (putting you at risk for death), you are highly contagious. If you aren’t very contagious, then your TB isn’t active, and doesn’t pose you the same threat. This was mentioned by Velma in post 401, who even provided [this cite](http://www.cdc.gov/tb/faqs/qa_introduction.htm), which says “However, not everyone infected with TB bacteria becomes sick. People who are not sick have what is called latent TB infection. People who have latent TB infection do not feel sick, do not have any symptoms, and cannot spread TB to others. But, some people with latent TB infection go on to get TB disease.” [/QUOTE] To be clear, I am not sure that “latent” TB = “Dormant” TB. “Dormant” is specifically a term I have only seen used by an article in _Newsweek_, which also described his TB as active. As far as I can tell, there may be 3 categories here: Latent = not active, not contagous at all. No restrictions whatsoever (I have personal knowledge of this as a good friend has this form and is under no treatment or any kind of restriction.) Dormant = ?? Possibly an active form, but person is showing no symptoms and therefore risk of contagousness is very low, but not completely non-existant. I think this is where the 17% stat comes from and where Speaker belongs. Active = person is obviously sick with TB symptoms and very contagous. IM non medical O, the contagousness and the severity of the TB are not linked, but the severity cannot be disregarded either when deciding whether or not a person should fly. Obviously people with very contagous cold and flu germs are not restricted from flying, and people with very deadly but not very contagous (for plane passengers) HIV are not either. Both must be considered, so if the CDC thought at first he had a regular, fairly curable form of TB with little chance of spreading, then I can see why he was strongly cautioned not to fly but not outright forbidden. Hence he wasn’t put on a no-fly list until after they confirmed it was a more deadly version, even if his level of contagousness did not change. There’s a difference between a 1% chance (I am making this stat up) of getting a cold (I know even regular TB is worse than a cold) and a 1% chance of getting Ebola. Somewhere in between lies Speaker and his TB. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/607 "2007-06-07T20:55:56Z")
[QUOTE=Sauron] Although the wording in this CBS News story isn’t clear, it seems to indicate options were being bandied about with Speaker when he panicked: "When contacted in Europe and told the latest diagnosis, Speaker concluded that the only lifesaving treatment available was back in the United States. But the CDC jets had not been used in a patient-retrieval situation like that, and CDC officials discussed other, more customary options, such as a private air ambulance or a U.S. military transport. In a conference call with reporters last week, CDC Director Dr. Julie Gerberding noted additional legal and diplomatic issues. It had to be worked out whether Italian officials had medical authority over Speaker while he was in Rome, she said." From here: [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/05/ap/national/main2890881.shtml](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/05/ap/national/main2890881.shtml) [/QUOTE] My inetepretation form reading that is that the CDC first told Speaker that they didn’t have a jet for him, but they were working on something. Then they discussed internally what they were going to do and by the time they figured something out Speaker was vamoose. ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/608 "2007-06-07T20:59:20Z")
[QUOTE=Gangster Octopus] but they were working on something. [/QUOTE] He claims that they told him no such thing. I have no idea if that is true or not, but he was pretty adamant about that point when he was interviewed. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/609 "2007-06-07T21:04:57Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Fundamentally, how are they different? [/QUOTE] If the highway isn’t built, there’s no potential for disease and death to anyone. Do I need to spell out the other half? ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/610 "2007-06-07T21:15:53Z")
This is from a blog by Scott McFarlane, a reporter from WHIO-TV who was covering the Congressional hearings on the situation: "CDC Director Gerberding just told Senators how her office responded once it discovered Andrew Speaker had traveled to Greece. Gerberding said CDC staffers tried to track down Speaker’s family by searching for phone numbers and addresses on the internet – to no avail. Gerberding said Speaker ultimately called the CDC himself. During that call, she said the Department’s staffers warned him about the risks to his health of missing treatment. Gerberding also told Senators the CDC discussed sending an ‘ambulatory-aircraft’ to bring Speaker home – and even called Speaker’s health insurance company (Kaiser Insurance) to determine if they’d help pay for the flight. But it was a ‘no go’. Gerberding also said the CDC considered sending its own aircraft to pick up Speaker. Those plans were called off, she said, because CDC discovered its planes aren’t equipped to carry drug-resistant TB patients. ‘We gave the patient the benefit of the doubt’ Gerberding testified. She then told the Committee the CDC didn’t take the most aggressive (action) it could have." From here: [http://www.whiotv.com/health/13453621/detail.html](http://www.whiotv.com/health/13453621/detail.html) And, from other portions of the blog: "We just heard some sobering words from another witness, Nils Daulaire, President of the Global Health Council. Daulaire said, ‘I’d rather have a diagnosis of cancer than a diagnosis of XDR-TB.’ XDR-TB, he said, is only curable at a 30 percent rate. And, he added, ‘cancer isn’t contagious.’" One final note from the blog: “Give Dr. Gerberding credit for demonstrating remarkable concentration. Her testimony is occasionally being drowned out by the noise from the speakerphone. Committee staffers failed to get Andrew Speaker to mute his telephone in Denver. His coughing and exhaling is quite loud - and overpowering the other sound in the room.” I suppose it’s possible that part of Speaker’s current treatment includes giving him medication that encourages him to cough … I don’t know. If not, though, I’d be more than a little concerned about being in an airplane with a TB-positive person who was coughing loudly. Seems fairly obvious to me that the CDC was caught flat-footed, and didn’t respond the way they should have. Also seems fairly obvious that Speaker is a selfish asshole who thought only of himself through the whole thing. It’s not an either-or situation. Both parties are at fault. ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/611 "2007-06-07T22:33:42Z")
Other excerpts from that blog: > [@](#): > > Speaker said numerous officials with the CDC, Fulton County, and other agencies were well aware of his condition and his travel plans. Speaker suggested his travel plans simply, “might not have made it up the chain of command at CDC”. > > Speaker said he understands why the public “was fearful” about his condition. But he said health officials repeatedly told him he was “not contagious” and that those officials were not wearing masks while sitting with him. “Nobody told me I was a threat to my wife and my daughter.”. “I wouldn’t have wanted to be around my wife and my daughter. My Dad wouldn’t have let me be near my mother,” Speaker added. > [@](#): > > Sen. Harkin is again expressing his frustration about the CDC’s decision _not_ to send one of its planes to pick up Speaker. He said the CDCs explanation of that decision, “doesn’t hold a lot of water. That’s where this thing fell apart”. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/612 "2007-06-07T22:38:46Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] If the highway isn’t built, there’s no potential for disease and death to anyone. Do I need to spell out the other half? [/QUOTE] Ok, so if the government takes private property in order to prevent disease/death, the property owner should not be compensated. Is that what you are saying? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/613 "2007-06-07T22:44:49Z")
[QUOTE=Kokopilau] > [@](#): > > If they had said “Sit tight. Don’t leave your hotel room - we’ll have a plane for you in 48 hours,” that would have changed things considerably. They did…they told him it would take a few days, but that wasn’t good enough for him. He wanted them to pay for a private charter, or arrange military transport. [/QUOTE] Still waiting for a cite. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/614 "2007-06-07T23:12:59Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Ok, so if the government takes private property in order to prevent disease/death, the property owner should not be compensated. Is that what you are saying? [/QUOTE] The payoff for the scenario you reach for here is not being charged with reckless endangerment and other crimes for not cooperating when advised/ordered not to travel, etc., if other people are sicken/killed due to your non-cooperation. Not all such tradeoffs are direct financial exchanges, kind of like the way it is now. 1. Eminent domain seizures allow for monetary compensation. 2. Quarantine/bans on travel/other restrictions due to potential deadly illnesses don’t. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/615 "2007-06-07T23:15:24Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] The payoff for the scenario you reach for here is not being charged with reckless endangerment and other crimes for not cooperating when advised/ordered not to travel, etc., if other people are sicken/killed due to your non-cooperation. Not all such tradeoffs are direct financial exchanges, kind of like the way it is now. 1. Eminent domain seizures allow for monetary compensation. 2. Quarantine/bans on travel/other restrictions due to potential deadly illnesses don’t. [/QUOTE] Ummm, is that a yes or a no? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/616 "2007-06-07T23:19:59Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Ummm, is that a yes or a no? [/QUOTE] You said the compensation of costs for having to cancel a wedding/honeymoon due to a quarantine or travel restriction should be monetary. I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/617 "2007-06-07T23:22:28Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] You said the compensation of costs for having to cancel a wedding/honeymoon due to a quarantine or travel restriction should be monetary. I disagree. [/QUOTE] I realize that. But what’s your answer to my question? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/618 "2007-06-07T23:28:31Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] I realize that. But what’s your answer to my question? [/QUOTE] The results of the process of eminent domain and resutls of the process of protecting the public health are not analogous. Your wish that end the result of both result in financial remuneration for citizen who suffers a financial loss is just that – a wish. That wish does not make them analogous. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/619 "2007-06-07T23:37:15Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] The results of the process of eminent domain and resutls of the process of protecting the public health are not analogous. Your wish that end the result of both result in financial remuneration for citizen who suffers a financial loss is just that – a wish. That wish does not make them analogous. [/QUOTE] So if the government takes private property in order to protect the public health, there should be no monetary compensation, right? It’s a very simple yes or no question. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/620 "2007-06-07T23:40:28Z")
[QUOTE=Sauron] \Seems fairly obvious to me that the CDC was caught flat-footed, and didn’t respond the way they should have. Also seems fairly obvious that Speaker is a selfish asshole who thought only of himself through the whole thing. It’s not an either-or situation. Both parties are at fault. [/QUOTE] That I am beginning to see now. Thank you **Sauron**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240.md?page=32)