# Is That TB Guy The Biggest Asshole Ever, Or What? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 31, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240 "2007-05-31T20:49:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/641 "2007-06-08T01:22:39Z")
[QUOTE=Barrett Bonden] This very afternoon I will purchase a very ugly hat so that if it turns out that Fulton County told Speaker that he was “not contagious,” (mind, no qualifiers allowed! Literally “not contagious”) I will eat it. Mark me. [/QUOTE] Holy crap, this hat tastes awful! [Quote=New York Times] In the tape recording – made by Speaker’s father, Ted, also a lawyer – the patient asks about the hospital’s accommodations. ‘‘Now, that I don’t know,’’ says Dr. Eric Benning, medical director of the Fulton County health department. ‘‘But because of the fact that you actually are not contagious, there’s no reason for you to be sequestered.’’ [/QUOTE] From [this article](http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Tuberculosis-Infection-King.html) ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/642 "2007-06-08T01:30:04Z")
[QUOTE=Kokopilau] No, colossal prick means someone who continues to ask for a cite, when someone else provides a cite. What reason did you have for insisting upon that from me personally? Come on, tell us why. [/QUOTE] Because he/she is a troll. That has become clear. Don’t feed the troll, or else you’ll be stuck in a morass of nitpicking and irrelevant recursive side arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Kokopilau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Kokopilau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kokopilau)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/643 "2007-06-08T01:31:45Z")
[QUOTE=Rusalka] Because he/she is a troll. That has become clear. Don’t feed the troll, or else you’ll be stuck in a morass of nitpicking and irrelevant recursive side arguments. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I know. It’s just like some kind of horrible compulsion. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/644 "2007-06-08T01:45:04Z")
[QUOTE=Kokopilau] Speaker still has TB in his lungs, and while it’s not killing him **right at this second** , it could become active and kill him, which is why the doctors are considering treatment options on how to get rid of the TB altogether, active or not. That’s how he could both be safe from **immediate death** and yet not out of all danger with his doctor thinking about surgery. [/quote] Why are you adding this new qualification? It certainly wasn’t in MY statement. Here’s what I said: > [@](#): > > Do you concede that a TB patient might be in danger from his TB but present little or no danger to others? I didn’t say “immediate” danger. I didn’t say “right at this second” danger. Nice try though, asshole. > [@](#): > > Except that Fulton County has no reason to be self-serving when repeating what their standard TB-information procedures Everyone has a reason to be self serving. It kinda comes with the definition of self serving. > [@](#): > > Okay, hands up, everyone reading this thread. Who thinks that my interpretation of Dr. Gerberding’s words to CNN constitutes a lie? Here’s another way to put it: Raise your hand if you think that **kokopilau** was being accurate when he made the following statement: > [@](#): > > They [the CDC] did [tell Speaker they would have a plane for him]…they told him it would take a few days, but that wasn’t good enough for him. He wanted them to pay for a private charter, or arrange military transport. ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/645 "2007-06-08T01:49:25Z")
[QUOTE=Rusalka] Because he/she is a troll. That has become clear. Don’t feed the troll, or else you’ll be stuck in a morass of nitpicking and irrelevant recursive side arguments. [/QUOTE] Bullshit. People get absorbed in minute details on this board every day. There is no reason to think brazil is a troll simply because s/he gets passionately involved in the other side of an argument. Calling him or her a “troll” strips the word of all meaning. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/646 "2007-06-08T01:49:54Z")
[QUOTE=Rusalka] Because he/she is a troll. That has become clear. Don’t feed the troll, or else you’ll be stuck in a morass of nitpicking and irrelevant recursive side arguments. [/QUOTE] Gimme a break. The question of whether Speaker was promised a plane by CDC is crucial to this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/647 "2007-06-08T01:51:49Z")
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer] Bullshit. People get absorbed in minute details on this board every day. There is no reason to think brazil is a troll simply because s/he gets passionately involved in the other side of an argument. Calling him or her a “troll” strips the word of all meaning. [/QUOTE] Thank you! And in other news, it appears that some of Speaker’s statements, although self-serving, may have been confirmed by his tape recording. ---
**Author:** ![Kokopilau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Kokopilau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kokopilau)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/648 "2007-06-08T01:55:26Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] Why are you adding this new qualification? It certainly wasn’t in MY statement. I didn’t say “immediate” danger. I didn’t say “right at this second” danger. Nice try though, asshole. [/QUOTE] Because we were talking about whether Speaker was justified in fleeing to the US instead of staying in Italy and going to a hospital there. You’ve been trying (and failing miserably) to show that he was gonna die and knew that, so it was right for him to ignore the CDC. ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/649 "2007-06-08T01:56:18Z")
[QUOTE=Barrett Bonden] Holy crap, this hat tastes awful! From [this article](http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Tuberculosis-Infection-King.html) [/QUOTE] I think its safe to say that just about every single significant point used to portray Speaker as an asshole has been successfully debunked. 1. Told he was not contagious before departing for his trip. 2. The CDC gave him no indication that this had changed after he arrived in Europe, but wanted him to enter into quarantine in Italy (away from his “only shot”) despite the fact that… 3. The CDC told him they would do nothing to get him out of the country. If I were Speaker, I sure as hell would have questioned why the CDC wanted me to turn myself in, without giving me any kind of indication that I was any more contagious than I had been the last time I spoke with them. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/650 "2007-06-08T01:57:12Z")
[QUOTE=Kokopilau] Because we were talking about whether Speaker was justified in fleeing to the US instead of staying in Italy and going to a hospital there. [/quote] As I said earlier, he may have been justifiably concerned that once he surrendered to the Italian authorities, it would be difficult to get free. ---
**Author:** ![Kokopilau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Kokopilau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kokopilau)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/651 "2007-06-08T02:00:00Z")
[QUOTE=brazil84] As I said earlier, he may have been justifiably concerned that once he surrendered to the Italian authorities, it would be difficult to get free. [/QUOTE] Why? If he was non-contagious and everyone knew that, as you say, why would they hold him and not let him go? ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/652 "2007-06-08T02:04:09Z")
[QUOTE=Kokopilau] Why? If he was non-contagious and everyone knew that, as you say, why would they hold him and not let him go? [/QUOTE] Because it would have been consistent with what they were telling him to do. They wanted him to turn himself in to the authorities in Italy, refrain from taking either a civilian, military, or private flight provided by them. All of that, despite the fact they acknowledged his contagiousness hadn’t changed. Why would that change in a week or a month? ---
**Author:** ![Kokopilau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Kokopilau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kokopilau)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/653 "2007-06-08T02:04:12Z")
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer] I think its safe to say that just about every single significant point used to portray Speaker as an asshole has been successfully debunked. 1. Told he was not contagious before departing for his trip. [/QUOTE] Apparently true. And he shouldn’t have been (though the transcript makes it obvious that the doctor is saying “you aren’t contagious so you don’t have to be quarantined right now”, not “you aren’t contagious, so fly to Europe”). > [@](#): > > 1. The CDC gave him no indication that this had changed after he arrived in Europe, Other than the fact that, y’know, they said they wanted him to not fly anywhere and to isolate himself from other people. You don’t do that for people you think aren’t gonna infect other people. > [@](#): > > 1. The CDC told him they would do nothing to get him out of the country. I’m still wondering what Dr. Gerberding meant when she told CNN what she did. > [@](#): > > If I were Speaker, I sure as hell would have questioned why the CDC wanted me to turn myself in, without giving me any kind of indication that I was any more contagious than I had been the last time I spoke with them. Because Speaker doesn’t have the medical knowledge to make a useful determination from an explanation. He knew he had TB, he knew TB could be contagious, and he knew the CDC wanted him in isolation from people. What more did he need to know? ---
**Author:** ![Kokopilau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Kokopilau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kokopilau)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/654 "2007-06-08T02:06:50Z")
[QUOTE=Capatalist Lion Tamer] Because it would have been consistent with what they were telling him to do. They wanted him to turn himself in to the authorities in Italy, refrain from taking either a civilian, military, or private flight provided by them. [/QUOTE] That is absolutely not true. They said they couldn’t arrange a military flight, and when they told him to take a private plane, HE said he couldn’t do that. > [@](#): > > All of that, despite the fact they acknowledged his contagiousness hadn’t changed. > > Why would that change in a week or a month? Because, as the CDC said in their press conference, they didn’t run the initial tests themselves, and wanted him in insolation after learning he had drug-resistant TB so they could be absolutely sure he wasn’t going to be a danger to others. We agreed on this after our last go round. Don’t go backtracking just because brazil84 is being an asshole about things. ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/655 "2007-06-08T02:07:50Z")
The CDC has stripped itself of any credibility in the press over the past week. They did so with Speaker as this was happening two weeks ago. Even a US Senator acknowledged that today when he told them that their explanation made no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/656 "2007-06-08T02:10:30Z")
[QUOTE=Kokopilau] That is absolutely not true. They said they couldn’t arrange a military flight, and when they told him to take a private plane, HE said he couldn’t do that. [/QUOTE] What I typed was 100% true. I said a private plane provided by the CDC. He couldn’t afford a $100K private flight, and they knew that. > [@](#): > > Because, as the CDC said in their press conference, they didn’t run the initial tests themselves, and wanted him in insolation after learning he had drug-resistant TB so they could be absolutely sure he wasn’t going to be a danger to others. > > We agreed on this after our last go round. Don’t go backtracking just because brazil84 is being an asshole about things. We agreed on the general facts, but never on the motivation. I have always maintained that their’s was questionable, at best. That has been proven today. ---
**Author:** ![Kokopilau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Kokopilau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kokopilau)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/657 "2007-06-08T02:20:32Z")
I give up on using my words, since you aren’t listening to me. So, [here’s a link](http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=uri:2007-06-06T193313Z_01_N06396615_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-TUBERCULOSIS-USA-COL.XML&pageNumber=1&summit=) to the CDC testifying before congress about what they told Speaker in Rome. [Here’s another link](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10801570) where Fulton County says that they made it clear Speaker shouldn’t travel, and that apparently a CDC doctor who contacted Speaker in Rome told multiple people multiple things and screwed up both the CDC and Speaker’s understanding of the issue. EDIT: With a bonus quote from Speaker himself saying he never would have gone to Europe or even gotten on that plane home, if he knew then what he knows now. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/658 "2007-06-08T02:30:03Z")
[QUOTE=Kokopilau] EDIT: With a bonus quote from Speaker himself saying he never would have gone to Europe or even gotten on that plane home, if he knew then what he knows now. [/QUOTE] Translation: I had no idea that the entire world would think that I was a dumbass for doing this. ---
**Author:** ![Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@Capatalist\_Lion\_Tamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capatalist_Lion_Tamer)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/659 "2007-06-08T02:30:33Z")
[QUOTE=Kokopilau] I give up on using my words, since you aren’t listening to me. So, [here’s a link](http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=uri:2007-06-06T193313Z_01_N06396615_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-TUBERCULOSIS-USA-COL.XML&pageNumber=1&summit=) to the CDC testifying before congress about what they told Speaker in Rome. [Here’s another link](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10801570) where Fulton County says that they made it clear Speaker shouldn’t travel, and that apparently a CDC doctor who contacted Speaker in Rome told multiple people multiple things and screwed up both the CDC and Speaker’s understanding of the issue. EDIT: With a bonus quote from Speaker himself saying he never would have gone to Europe or even gotten on that plane home, if he knew then what he knows now. [/QUOTE] Did you not read Barrett Bonden’s latest post? The whole point is that Speaker didn’t know then what he knows know because the medical professionals weren’t telling him that he was contagious. Every new fact that is exposed tilts everything in Speaker’s favor. All of them. People have been arguing several points that have since been thoroughly debunked. The CDC plane, the fact that he wasn’t deemed a risk & told that before hand, the fact that he broke no laws,etc. etc. People have been dropping out of this thread, partly because the bickering was too much to take, and partly because they started to realize that the CDC’s actions, while Speaker was in Italy, spoke a lot louder than their words. And their actions said “We have no idea what to tell you, because we have no idea what to do with you, and no idea when we will allow you to return home.” That is the primary reason the guy hit the road. ---
**Author:** ![Kokopilau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Kokopilau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kokopilau)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240/660 "2007-06-08T02:31:08Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] Translation: I had no idea that the entire world would think that I was a dumbass for doing this. [/QUOTE] Yeah, basically this is shaking out as the CDC screwed this up, but Speaker was wrong to do what he did and he knows and admits it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-that-tb-guy-the-biggest-asshole-ever-or-what/406240.md?page=34)