# Is the 15K mile service a rip off? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 12, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707 "2013-03-12T14:22:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/21 "2013-03-12T19:01:49Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I have owned several cars over the years. My daily driver is now 12 years old with 185,000km on the odometer. It runs exceptionally well and I’m fairly confident it will reliably see my daughter through her last year in high-school and probably through college. > > My fun car is newer and a bit special and it’s got less than 50,000 miles on the odometer. It’s a proper performance sport sedan. I hope to continue to keep it in excellent running condition for some time to come and so I’ll change the synthetic oil every 5,000 miles or once a year, whichever comes first. Lack of control group, the plural of anecdote is not data, etc. What you are is a bit obsessive (as you [admitted earlier](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16090750&postcount=16&highlight=obsessive)) and, arguably, wasteful. There is no valid reason to believe the excessive servicing of your vehicle has done it any good whatsoever. For all you know, it would have done just as well without it. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/22 "2013-03-12T19:08:25Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I have owned several cars over the years. My daily driver is now 12 years old with 185,000km on the odometer. It runs exceptionally well and I’m fairly confident it will reliably see my daughter through her last year in high-school and probably through college. > > My fun car is newer and a bit special and it’s got less than 50,000 miles on the odometer. It’s a proper performance sport sedan. I hope to continue to keep it in excellent running condition for some time to come and so I’ll change the synthetic oil every 5,000 miles or once a year, whichever comes first. Riggggght, but the way to refute what I just said isn’t to point to the cars you babied that ran for a good long while, but to point to cars that DIDN’T because they only got the minimum manufacturer’s recommended maintenance. There are oil analysis companies out there where you can send a sample of used oil and they will send you back a report telling you more than you would ever want to know about the condition of the oil and any contamination in it. The results pretty much always indicate that the recommended change intervals are extremely conservative, usually by margins of over 100% or more. ---
**Author:** ![Orionizer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orionizer/32/4442_2.png) [@Orionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orionizer)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/23 "2013-03-12T19:10:21Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > [The old standard of 3,000 miles is woefully out of date and no longer applies to most cars. Many cars, even older models, can be driven up to 5,000, 7,500, 10,000, and even 15,000 miles before needing an oil change.](http://www.calrecycle.ca.gov/UsedOil/OilChange/) > > [A 2012 KIA Sportage can go up to 7500 miles before an oil change in ideal conditions.\*](http://www.checkyournumber.org/#) > [URL=“[http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/MC/96789-07112159.html?utm\_source=google&utm\_medium=ff&utm\_content=MC&utm\_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&utm\_term=2011-2013+Kia+Sportage+Air+Filter+WIX+49210+11-13+Kia+Air+Filter+12&fp=pp&gbm=a&gclid=CJah8dbd97UCFSGqPAodqiAADg](http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/MC/96789-07112159.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_content=MC&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&utm_term=2011-2013+Kia+Sportage+Air+Filter+WIX+49210+11-13+Kia+Air+Filter+12&fp=pp&gbm=a&gclid=CJah8dbd97UCFSGqPAodqiAADg)”] According to my dealer, the standard Optima can go for 5k miles, but the SX or EX Turbos require 3k mile oil changes. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/24 "2013-03-12T19:15:22Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Lack of control group, the plural of anecdote is not data, etc. > > What you are is a bit obsessive (as you [admitted earlier](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16090750&postcount=16&highlight=obsessive)) Thanks for telling me what I already admitted up front, captain obvious. :rolleyes: > [@Knorf](#): > > …and, arguably, wasteful. There is no valid reason to believe the excessive servicing of your vehicle has done it any good whatsoever. For all you know, it would have done just as well without it. Ah-ha… but on the bright side, no vehicles were harmed in the process. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/25 "2013-03-12T19:15:44Z")
> [@Orionizer](#): > > According to my dealer, the standard Optima can go for 5k miles, but the SX or EX Turbos require 3k mile oil changes. Go with the manual’s recommendation, not the dealer’s. The dealer wants to gouge you. The people who made the car know what’s best for it. It’s really that simple. In the rare instance that it’s the same, joy. But I doubt it is. Check the manual; I can almost guarantee the dealer’s recommendation is twice as often as the manual’s. Why on earth people trust the dealer over the manufacturer is always baffling to me. The truth is, even the manufacturer’s recommendations are on the conservative side, for obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/26 "2013-03-12T19:16:10Z")
Since I’m not aware of any problems resulting from changing oil too frequently I prefer not to let it go too long. But it is a waste of money to do it too frequently, and luckily by the time I actually get around to doing it, it’s about every 5000 miles anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/27 "2013-03-12T19:16:52Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Ah-ha… but on the bright side, no vehicles were harmed in the process. Right? But a natural resource was wasted, which I cannot support. > [@TriPolar](#): > > Since I’m not aware of any problems resulting from changing oil too frequently I prefer not to let it go too long. But it is a waste of money to do it too frequently… It’s also a waste of a natural resource which, if you haven’t noticed, is at the center of a lot of instability in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/28 "2013-03-12T19:27:58Z")
I think it’s a rip-off on several levels. It’s selling stuff that’s not needed at that mileage, it’s failing to provide stuff that Kia calls for at that mileage, and it’s overpriced for what is provided. The factory schedule for 15K miles includes: inspection of various items; cabin (not engine) air filter replacement; oil, filter, and lube service (the lube includes checking basic fluid levels); and tire rotation. Barring special cases like driving a LOT on dusty roads, modern engine air filters have 30K (or more) replacement intervals and will do okay for quite a bit longer. Replacement at 15K can’t really be justified. The great (probably overwhelming) majority of tires go through their lifetime without needing to be rebalanced. Doing it every 15K is a good way for the shop to pay for the balancing machine, but is of little if any benefit to the customer. BG is a company that sells automove fluid servicing equipment and additives. They make good products, but their inclusion on the dealer’s schedule is gilding the lily, and functions mainly as a profit generator. Vehicle manufacturers generally warn not to use oil additives. The 30K service at this place lists “evaluate spark plugs for replacement” which is ludicrous – the plugs on this vehicle have a replacement interval of 105K. It also lists transmission fluid service (factory interval 60K for severe service, not mentioned for normal service), coolant flush (factory interval 120K), and power steering fluid flush (not listed by the factory, commonly called a “wallet flush” by many of my colleagues). These schedules are designed to sell service whether it’s needed or not, and mostly it’s not. It’s overkill and oversell, and it leads me to not trust this facility. I agree that you’d be best served by an independent shop (or maybe a different dealer) that will do what’s on Kia’s schedule and not pad the list with questionable extras. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/29 "2013-03-12T19:29:59Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Riggggght, but the way to refute what I just said isn’t to point to the cars you babied that ran for a good long while, but to point to cars that DIDN’T because they only got the minimum manufacturer’s recommended maintenance. > > There are oil analysis companies out there where you can send a sample of used oil and they will send you back a report telling you more than you would ever want to know about the condition of the oil and any contamination in it. The results pretty much always indicate that the recommended change intervals are extremely conservative, usually by margins of over 100% or more. You’re under the mistaken impression that I’m making the argument that manufacturer suggested recommendations are insufficient for the average user/driver. I am not. I’m suggesting there is no harm in err-ing on the side of caution with more frequent oil changes. The link provided in the OP suggested 3,000 mile intervals. I don’t drive a Kia. I don’t know what the 2012 Kia require as far as manufacturer recommended changes. If the linked interval is incorrect then I suppose I stand corrected in advising the OP to change the oil per linked schedule. :dubious: Having said that, you are not telling me anything new about used oil sample testing or what data those test results often yield under normal use. So I don’t know what argument it is you’re having with me but I assure you it’s an argument of your own making. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/30 "2013-03-12T19:46:50Z")
Kia’s oil change interval is 7000 miles for normal service, 3750 for severe service. For most cars that get a mix of city and highway driving a 5-6K interval would be reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/31 "2013-03-12T19:47:24Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > But a natural resource was wasted, which I cannot support. > It’s also a waste of a natural resource which, if you haven’t noticed, is at the center of a lot of instability in the world. Hell, it’s at the center of a lot of instability right in this thread. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/32 "2013-03-12T20:13:48Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > But a natural resource was wasted, which I cannot support. > > It’s also a waste of a natural resource which, if you haven’t noticed, is at the center of a lot of instability in the world. Just building the car wastes more resources than a few extra oil changes. You’re really stretching that concept here. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/33 "2013-03-12T20:35:20Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Just building the car wastes more resources than a few extra oil changes. You’re really stretching that concept here. Fair enough. But if you’ve made the wasteful choice to purchase a car, why make it even worse by changing the oil 2x or 3x more often than the manufacturer suggests? In any case, a yet more serious concern is disposal of oil–environmental contamination by used oil is actually a pretty big problem. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/34 "2013-03-12T21:20:47Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Fair enough. But if you’ve made the wasteful choice to purchase a car, why make it even worse by changing the oil 2x or 3x more often than the manufacturer suggests? In any case, a yet more serious concern is disposal of oil–environmental contamination by used oil is actually a pretty big problem. My used oil gets recycled. ---
**Author:** ![Orionizer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orionizer/32/4442_2.png) [@Orionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orionizer)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707/35 "2013-03-12T21:45:00Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Go with the manual’s recommendation, not the dealer’s. The dealer wants to gouge you. The people who made the car know what’s best for it. > > It’s really that simple. > > In the rare instance that it’s the same, joy. But I doubt it is. Check the manual; I can almost guarantee the dealer’s recommendation is twice as often as the manual’s. > > Why on earth people trust the dealer over the manufacturer is always baffling to me. > > The truth is, even the manufacturer’s recommendations are on the conservative side, for obvious reasons. I’ll check that - it hadn’t occurred to me to look at the manual, actually as my previous dealer was so great, I guess I’m used to thinking they all are. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-15k-mile-service-a-rip-off/652707.md?page=1)