I forgot to end my sentence:
“is wishful thinking.”
Not quite. With a swing of 2 Senators, control would still depend on Louisiana. That’s a close call, although Republicans sound optimistic. OTOH with a swing of a few hundred votes in SD and if the NJ Democrats had been forced to follow the law, then the Dems would have 2 fewer seats.
It’s also interesting to note that the Reps have had a majority of the Senate after each of the last 3 elections. Furthermore, fewer Republican Senators than Democrats are up for re-election in 2004. I think it’s about 19 Dems and 14 Reps. Given Bush’s popularity and the lack of a strong Democratic Presidential candidate, it’s pretty likely that the Reps will pick up additional Senate seats in 2004.
(Notice how the Republicans still can’t bring themselves to talk about the governorships, huh?)
The Republicans don’t have a monopoly on counterfactuals. Look at the myths regarding Social Security.
– A Social Security Trust Fund with money in it exists.
– Budget deficits are equivalent to Social Security deficits.
– Voluntary investment of a portion of SS contributions by young workers would threaten the solvency of SS for retirees.
Or me, either. Man, would that be exciting, or what!
These look more like republican lies to me.
– I don’t know any sane person who believes this, or is saying this. Pubbies like to lie and say that the dems are saying this, but it just aint so.
– This one is mostly true. If one discounts SS revenues/outlays. The budget defict this year is many times larger than the official one.
– How is this not true? Is it because the solvency of SS is already threatened?
It is precisely because there is *not a SS trust fund with actual money sitting in it that you can’t divert a portion of current contributions to private accounts without harming the basic solvency of the system.
You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth here.
Minty wrote:
[…shrug…] Ask David. He brought it up.
Well, Al Gore said in a speech to the Democratic National Convention Aug 18, 2000:
Sure sounds like he want to put some sort of assets into a lock box.
I agree with you on that point. However, the solvency of Social Security has nothing to do with past budget deficits. It depends on the willingness and ability of the country to continue to fund this program.
Social Security isn’t remotely solvent in an actuarial sense. According to the latest Social Security Trustees Report, the unfunded liability exceeds 25 trillion dollars! The only security of Social Security is the commitment of government to continue paying the benefits. There’s no reason to doubt the commitment of either party to do so.
You know, you people on the left are supposed to be the party of the people, supporting the average person against the tyranny of big business and all.
So how come you have so little damned respect for them? You guys treat the country like it’s a bunch of children who need your enlightened leadership to guide them. If they don’t agree with you, they’re stupid, or dupes of a vast conspiracy, or just evil.
No wonder every ‘people’s revolution’ winds up being a dictatorship. You leftists don’t really like or trust ‘the people’, do you?
Minty: Hey, way to go, Democrats! You managed to pick up a couple of governorships! Just not anywhere near the number that was predicted.
But while we’re talking about Governorships, would you like to explain how a pro-gun, Mormon Republican wound up as governor of Massachussets?
And while we’re still on the subject of Governorships, perhaps you could explain how Governor Barnes, who was hugely funded, and considered so safe that it was expected he’d drag other Democrats into office on his coattails, lost in Georgia?
Oh, and while we’re still talking about Governorships, did you notice that Maryland elected its first Republican governor in 36 years, defeating the heavily funded and supported daughter of Robert Kennedy?
And before we totally leave the Governorships behind, did you notice that Jeb Bush won in Florida, and by a huge margin, despite the fact that the Democratic party pulled out all the stops to unseat him?
Before we leave the States, perhaps you’d like to look at what happened in the state legislatures. Before the election, Republicans controlled 18, Democrats 17, the rest split. After, it was 21, 16, and the rest split. More evidence that the center has moved to Republicans.
And Republicans took over the Georgia Senate for the first time since reconstruction.
You guys are painting the election like the results were much closer than they seemed. In fact, they were much more lopsided than they seemed. Most of the races were ‘safe’ and weren’t likely to move. Of the ones that weren’t safe, the Republicans won decisively. Of the ‘open’ elections where there was no incumbent, Republicans won 3 out of 4. And if you look at the margins of victory in the safe districts, you find that the Democrats almost universally did poorer than they were expected to.
But let’s let another politician weigh in with his opinion:
- Al Gore
Sam wrote:
“Every revolution evaporates, and leaves behind the slime of a new bureaucracy.” — Franz Kafka
Nope, they just need access to truth. Then they can make their own decisions. The basic problem is that the leadership of the republican party is so consistently dishonest about what they stand for, and what the basic facts underlying those positions are.
The dupes of the vast conspiracy are people like you. Those who actively try and sell the bullshit to others. The vast majority just can’t be bothered to cut through the bullshit. So they vote their ignorance. But counting on people staying ignorant forever is a loosing proposition.
In this election the rebublicans uniformly pretended to be against privatization of SS in the election. Now they claim that they got a mandate to privatize out of this election.
They claim to be for a prescription drug benefit for Seniors, but their actual plan is really a handout to drug companies and insurance companies. (Who happen to have been instrumental in getting them elected by paying for ads that muddled the issue)
And all of these nefarious lies are totally hidden from the people, from the mainstream media, but are self-evident to people like you?
Uh huh.
Because they want to believe, Sam. A perfectly understandable desire. When Bill Clinton told me he didn’t have sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky, I believed him. At least partly because I couldn’t believe he would screw up what he spent his life trying to get just for a quick hummer in the Oval Office. But he was lying.
The situation with Our Leader is worse. He stands before us brandishing evidence that he claims is proof positive and it turns out to be untrue. A lie. He salts his case with innuendo and half-truths when he is talking about something as dire, as desperately important, as war.
The human instinct is to rally around the leader in time of crisis, an insinct which the Republicans exploited shamelessly. The mainstream media, or the media whores, or the liberal media, whichever, tiptoed around the truth, even as it stared them in the face. I remember Nixon, do you? Even when his lies became utterly transparent, no body would say the “L” word. They were “exaggerations”, he was “embroidering the truth”. No he wasn’t. He was lying.
Nobody wants to believe we are being led by a sock puppet or a scoundrel. Reagan told whale size whoppers, time and again, and the people believed him rather than face the awful truth.
It isn’t so amazing that the people rallied round when the Pubbies started beating the war drums. What is amazing is so many people didn’t. By historical standards, the Republicans shouldn’t have simply won by capitalizing on American fears and solidarity, they should have utterly trounced!
Take note: when Paul Wellstone had the guts to vote against the War Resolution, when he was in a desperately close race, his numbers actually went up! Even he expected that position would cost him, Coleman ads were already besmirching his “patriotism”.
Waving the bloody shirt and pounding the war drum has always worked, the fact that it worked again is nothing new. That, and of course, the huge money advantage the Pubbies enjoy should have meant a massacre at the polls. It didn’t, which says something I hesitate to believe: we’re getting smarter. The old reliable hot buttons still work, but not as well. Huh. Who’d a thunk it?
The Pubbies have shown themselves to be power whores of the first magnitude, there isn’t anything they won’t stoop to. So be it. But if and when the trajectory of the shit intersects the locus of the fan, they can’t blame the “obstructive” Dems anymore. They’ll have to pin it on somebody else.
Maybe Canada.
I had said:
december replied:
Care to point out where I said anything about “2 Senators”? I mentioned “a few” and “just some.” I realize that by going with “2” it helps your point, but then your entire point in starting this thread was to gloat anyway, wasn’t it?
Wow, can I have your crystal ball? You already know that in two years Bush will still be popular and the Dems will lack a strong candidate. That’s amazing!
Eh, never mind. We all know facts are not your strong point.
I would say that I spend several hours every week reading and seeking out alternate sources of information. My guess is that, alas, the average American doesn’t dedicate this kind of time to this project. Some because they have much more real responsibilities than I do such as raising kids…and perhaps others because they prefer to do other things like watch football and “Survivor” or whatever the latest reality show is. [And, there is still others who seem to do all these things…And, I have no idea how they manage it. I guess they get by on less sleep!]
And the vast media leaves the conspiracy completely ignored? There are no defectors, no whistleblowers?
Why can’t you just admit that the general public is reasonably informed on the issues, and has made a judgement that you just don’t happen to share?
Because that’s what happened, you know.
You keep talking about this as though the “general public” had spoken with one voice, as if unity and solidarity pervades the Republic, and all are united behind Our Leader. Ain’t so. Say it as many times as you like, still ain’t so.
The Dems were clobbered by war fever and money. They shouldn’t have just simply lost, they should have been massacred, considering what they were up against. But they weren’t.
Bush has one quality hard to overcome: he is amazingly lucky. I know he didn’t orchestrate the 10,000 votes of Jews for Buchanan, you can’t plan that sort of shit. But without it he wouldn’t be sitting there, you know it and I know it.
I’m not so sure he knows it. The Man Who Fell Up may really believe that he is a collossus, a Leader of Men. God help us.
You funny.
Don’t forget Rhode Island and my home state of Vermont, two democratic bastions who elected Republican governors this year. Also Hawaii*.
Also don’t forget Florida…even though you mentioned it, it bears repeating. I gotta get me a clip of Terry McCauliffe saying a week before the election that Jeb Bush was “gone” :D.
[sub] My prediction: Minty will dismiss these with his patented rolleyes smiley, saying something about how much bigger Michigan and Pennsylvania are, and ignore everything else. Especially Florida.[/sub]
Since the idea that the voters might be reasonably well informed tickles your funnybone, Stoid, I take it that you do concede Sam Stone’s point that:
elucidator seems to make a similar concession with his explaning off the voters’ behavior with the patronizing “they want to believe”.
Folks, we’ve just seen two “party of the people” subconciously affirm Sam Stone’s premise even as they were ostensibly denying it. Bravo.