# Is the Apocalypse upon us? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 30, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331 "2004-12-30T23:11:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skott)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/41 "2005-01-01T07:27:11Z")
> [@Master Control](#): > > \, when I was a kid, I used to believe that the end times were near. You know, it’s good to know I’m not the only one who went through that. I mean, the church I went to had good points about these being the end of days: Humanity now has the ability to, by choice, destroy itself, and the state of Israel was created. Still, it’s been nearly sixty years and not a lot of “progress” has been made 😉 The “Apocalypse”, from what I understand, is a bit of a misnomer, since the word itself simply means “revelation”, “unveiling”, or “disclosure”. A better question would probably be: Have the seals begun to open yet? Since the first four seals are supposed to destroy a quarter of the earths population, I’d say we’re nowhere close. When events begin to conspire for the death of 1.5 _billion_ people, through “sword, famine, pestilence, and wild beasts” then things might begin to happen. Revelation doesn’t give a specific event that starts off the opening of the seals. Many point to Jesus’ answers to the diciples’ questions regarding the time of the end to align with the seals, and thus find the statement regarding the “abomination of desolations spoken of by Daniel” to give credence to the idea that a seven year peace treaty (Daniel 9:27) is the sign of the opening of the seals. The peace treaty would then be broken half-way through and the temple sacrafices stop. So, three key things, according to this theory: Seven year peace treaty (between Israel and other Middle East nations?), a temple, and animal sacrafices. There are some Jews (and Christians) who are working towards a new temple and sacrifices in Jerusalem, but from what I’ve been told, they’re quite the minority. Anytime any of these disasters happen, many who want the end of the world to come say it’s a sign. But nearly always the news says, “This is the biggest earthquake since 19xx” or “The worst damaged caused since 18xx”, which means it wasn’t a sign then, so why should it be a sign now? Arguably, the worst time in (recent) human history was WWII, yet the world didn’t end then, either. Quite frankly, I’m not sure that Revelation even belongs in the canon, since it tends to show a “Circumcision Party” point of view (e.g. eating meat sacraficed to idols is wrong, only Israelites will be saved, God will rule the world with an iron fist, etc.), something Paul and much of the early church was against. Many were against it being included as canon in the first place. Be that as it may, I have to say, it’s a great final chapter to the New Testement, and has some really amazing imagery in it. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/42 "2005-01-01T09:23:25Z")
> [@Skott](#): > > Quite frankly, I’m not sure that Revelation even belongs in the canon, since it tends to show a “Circumcision Party” point of view (e.g. eating meat sacraficed to idols is wrong, only Israelites will be saved, God will rule the world with an iron fist, etc.), something Paul and much of the early church was against. Many were against it being included as canon in the first place. Be that as it may, I have to say, it’s a great final chapter to the New Testement, and has some really amazing imagery in it. Yeah, I use to read Revelation a lot when I was younger. Partially because I really wanted it to be true, and partially because of the wonderfull imagery. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2005, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/43 "2005-01-01T10:18:34Z")
> [@Skott](#): > > You know, it’s good to know I’m not the only one who went through that. I mean, the church I went to had good points about these being the end of days: Humanity now has the ability to, by choice, destroy itself, and the state of Israel was created. Still, it’s been nearly sixty years and not a lot of “progress” has been made 😉 I’ve told the story several times here but it was in 1975 that Lindsey’s LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH inspired a 13yo FriarTed to really activate my C’tian Faith, and I became quite the High School Rapturist scholar. I wouldn’t say I “went through that”, moreso that I put others through it. 😃 It was in college, 1982 that I dropped Rapturism & briefly adopted ManifestSonship before settling on Historic PreMillism w/ sympathies towards Preterist PostMillism. I HOPE that if we are near the EndTImes (which I doubt) the Rapture is PreTrib, but Scripture really seems not to lean that way. If weird stuff like the Temple’s rebuilding, a messianic personage negotiating peace in the MidEast & the like occurs, I’ll be getting ready praying for Rapture, preparing for Trib ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/44 "2005-01-02T17:12:51Z")
Mine eyes have seen the coming of the Dark Lord Antichrist He is humorous and handsome and he isn’t very nice We’ll get along just fine if you don’t make him tell you twice Apocalypse today! Gory, gory Armageddon Gory, gory Armageddon Gory, gory Armageddon Apocalypse today! It’s really most annoying, with the rains of flaming pitch And the things that bite and things that burn and things that sting and itch But, oh, that Whore of Babylon’s a lusty, royal bitch! Apocalypse today! (chorus) It’s really most confusing, with the Horsemen in the skies And the seven seals, and seven plagues, and lambs with seven eyes But we get no fun from Jesus, so bring on the Prince of Lies! Apocalypse today! (chorus) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/45 "2005-01-02T18:59:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Mine eyes have seen the coming of the Dark Lord Antichrist > He is humorous and handsome and he isn’t very nice > We’ll get along just fine if you don’t make him tell you twice > Apocalypse today! > > Gory, gory Armageddon > Gory, gory Armageddon > Gory, gory Armageddon > Apocalypse today! > > It’s really most annoying, with the rains of flaming pitch > And the things that bite and things that burn and things that sting and itch > But, oh, that Whore of Babylon’s a lusty, royal bitch! > Apocalypse today! > > (chorus) > > It’s really most confusing, with the Horsemen in the skies > And the seven seals, and seven plagues, and lambs with seven eyes > But we get no fun from Jesus, so bring on the Prince of Lies! > Apocalypse today! > > (chorus) > > 🙂 That is precious. 😃 “It’s a Woodland Critter Christmas! Hail Satan!” ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9d8465/32.png) [@wolf\_in\_second\_hand\_clothing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_in_second_hand_clothing)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/46 "2005-01-04T03:14:33Z")
People still think Chernobyl was a sign of the apocalypse because it is the name for the herb wormwood, which is the name for the falling star or “great catastrophe” that would supposedly bitter a third of the world’s rivers. Even though it didn’t affect nearly a third of the world’s rivers, people find these types of dire portents wherever they look hard enough for them. It’s vague enough that one can find warnings of the apocalypse all the time, but specific enough that it _can’t_ just be a coincidence. Besides, my fortune cookie and psychic friend each told me that I would live to a long age. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/47 "2005-01-04T12:13:56Z")
I asked one of my fundie relatives how she was sure that the apocalypse hadn’t already happened; And maybe only the folks in Indonesia made the cut. 🙂 It had the intended effect of ending the conversation. (sorry) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/48 "2005-01-04T13:13:22Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I’ve heard it’s the end times from my fundie family since I was old enough to understand words (1970’s). > > On a slightly related note, my grandmother can’t say ‘tsunami’, so she said yesterday how terrible it was all those folks died in the “tiramisu”… Hey, I had tiramisu once that made me _think_ I’d been Raptured… ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/49 "2005-01-04T15:17:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Weeelll . . . there are different theories about that. From [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book\_of\_Revelation:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation:) In addition to the various views and interpretations of _Revelation_ that you list there is that of Thomas Jefferson that it is, “… the ravings of a manic, no more worthy or capable of explanation that the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.” From a letter to one Alexander Smyth, 7 Jan. 1825 (_Thomas Jefferson: An Intimate History_, Fawn M. Brodie, W.W. Norton and Company, Inc., New York) ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/50 "2005-01-04T16:58:32Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Hey, I had tiramisu once that made me _think_ I’d been Raptured… Come to Pittsburgh. The chocolate bombe at Gullifty’s will have the same effect, but be warned – that gentleman you’ve been seeing might become jealous of its effect on you. The gentleman I’ve been seeing did. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/51 "2005-01-04T17:42:06Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > Come to Pittsburgh. The chocolate bombe at Gullifty’s will have the same effect, but be warned – that gentleman you’ve been seeing might become jealous of its effect on you. The gentleman I’ve been seeing did. 😃 Considering that the gentleman in question is a better-than-middling cook, he’d want the recipe… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/52 "2005-01-04T17:59:35Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Cause people need something to believe in , even if it means the end of the world. Yes Earthquakes happen all the time , but in small doses. When you have a hollywood size natural disaster , it invites the weak minded to re-visit stuff they learned in sunday school. That’s more or less what I think, but what I’d really like is to hear somebody who thinks this IS a sign of the Apocalypse or whatever to answer it. Seems to me a lot of people think it’s happening during their lifetime because they don’t like the thought of missing it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/53 "2005-01-05T05:16:41Z")
Hearing Tool’s song “Ænema” (from their album named, confusingly, _Ænima_ - why “e” in one but “i” in the other?) reminded me of this thread. The lyrics may be found on [this page](http://www.rocklyricsonline.com/lyrics/13_aenema.html). The beginning goes: > [@](#): > > Some say the end is near. > Some say we’ll see armageddon soon. > I certainly hope we will. > I sure could use a vacation from this A different spin on the whole Aramgeddon issue. My favorite lines are: > [@](#): > > Learn to swim. > > Cuz I’m praying for rain > And I’m praying for tidal waves > I wanna see the ground give way. > I wanna watch it all go down. WRS/Thû - Watch for the Nazgûl of the Apocalypse: just like the Horsemen but new and improved! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/54 "2005-01-05T06:12:27Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > Hearing Tool’s song “Ænema” (from their album named, confusingly, _Ænima_ - why “e” in one but “i” in the other?) reminded me of this thread. I’m guessing, but the first one sounds like a pun - anima/enema - and the second one doesn’t. Then again, Tool is pretty weird… ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/55 "2021-11-03T02:23:53Z")
Revisited this thread as a result of a search. I do have something pertinent to add: that why the Apocalypse has been so delayed- specifically, the rise of the Antichrist- and just what is delaying it is a mystery that some have elevated to the status of an actor in of itself. This is called the [Katechon - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katechon) ETA: now I have an idea for a Netflix series: a secret group millennia old that has been delaying the Apocalypse by assassinating successive incarnations of the Antichrist before he can come to power. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/56 "2021-11-19T13:48:29Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > that why the Apocalypse has been so delayed- specifically, the rise of the Antichrist- The Antichrists have not been delayed as it was clear that antichrists have been in the world back when the book of 1 John was penned > Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that **antichrist** is coming, even now many **antichrist** s have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. The antichrists seem to appear throughout time. Also the rapture might likewise be ongoing: > Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56 and he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” 57 But they shouted with loud voices, and covered their ears and rushed at him with one [[aj](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%207&version=NASB#fen-NASB-27166aj)]mind. 58 When they had driven him out of the city, they _began_ stoning _him_ ; It is my pet theory that the end times have been ever ongoing, ever since the beginning of ‘death’ > Hebrews 11:5: By faith **Enoch** was taken up so that he would not see death; \>and he was not found because God took him up (Enoch would be the first person that the Bible mentions to be raptured all the way back in pre-flood times of Genesis) (Paul describes this type of ‘ending’ for believers, being taken up by the Lord Jesus, one of 2 possible endings the other is falling asleep) Based also on a mathematical equivalency principal which assumes the controversial position that Jesus is God. In that God does not change, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Way, thus the way does not change. And how does one find Jesus and the way before Jesus was born? That is also described as seek and you shall find. In this pet theory, the end times refers to the end times of a person’s life, and not linear time. Thus someone can see the signs of the apocalypse and others do not as it is not their time. The person holding up the sign ‘Repent the end is near’ are being reflective that in their time this may be true. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/57 "2021-11-19T14:05:13Z")
I’ll go further, and yes this is going into witnessing. While I don’t hold to my pet theory 100%, I do have some reason to accept the possibility, besides it seems to make sense scripturally and answer lots of questions like the one the OP is asking. So if I’m sort of correct in it, i may be experiencing the end times. One thing that came to me in an instant though is the black horse of the Apocalypse is riding. Where black indicates oil, wine/oil indicate crops that would be diverted into bio-fuels and equated in price (scales) to fuels making food prohibitively expensive fo many, and certain common foods/drinks untouchable for many. Then there is Trump, who fits the description of the first beast very well. (or head of the beast), with even believers being deceived into worshiping Trump (even constructing a golden image of him), prophesying for him and even declaring him to be the messiah. A man full of lies (Devil = father of lies, the beast is sort of a unholy trinity where the beast would be the son of the devil in that equation), and accusing others of what he himself is doing, including having children sexually exploited to satisfy his sadistic nature - these are the children separated from their parents and held in detention centers where sexual and other abuses have been reported. The MAGA hats pointing symbolically to the mark on the forehead (Hitler was also one, where it was on the right hand, in the Heil Hitler salute). Then we have another horseman that Brings plague (COVID) and helped by a unholy alliance with the beast and his worshipers to help spread the disease with anti-mask and anti vax. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/58 "2021-11-19T20:06:36Z")
Seventeen years. If it is, it’s a very slow motion apocalypse. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/59 "2021-11-19T20:08:31Z")
Every time this topic comes up within Christian eschatology, one has to keep pointing out that the chaos the world is in isn’t even remotely close to what happened in the past such as the Black Death or World War II. When a world dictator shows up and has a statue that can talk and kill people, then that’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331/60 "2021-11-24T18:49:54Z")
Is it time to ask just what is our society doing wrong that it creates so many people who long for the Apocalypse? Teenage angst is one thing, but this is a little sad in grownups. Don’t get me wrong, I have a list of people I wouldn’t mind seeing smited or smote or smoted, but that’s not the same thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-apocalypse-upon-us/282331.md?page=4)