# Is the "Aristocrats" really an old Vaudeville tradition? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 8, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152 "2005-08-08T18:45:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/1 "2005-08-08T18:45:28Z")
So, in today’s [Answer Man](http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=ANSWERMAN) column, Roger Ebert is asked whether the whole “Aristocrats” joke thing is a hoax perpetrated by Penn Gillette. That is, it’s not actually a legendary Vaudeville act. [Here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?searchid=1051687)the SDMB search. Two things put forth from “Answer Man”. . . "First, Penn Jillette. If anyone was going to make up a dirty joke, then fool millions of people into thinking it’s a super-secret comedian thing, it would be Jillette. Secondly, I can’t find any evidence that the joke was posted to the Internet before 2001." Ebert doesn’t convince me as he offers that “But since authentic footage shows Gilbert Gottfried telling the joke at a Friar’s roast in 2001, a hoax would have involved great foresight and patience, plus the total cooperation of all 100 comedians in the film.” He makes a good point, but does anyone really think that something like “the aristocrats” wouldn’t have been put on the internet before 2001 if it actually WERE an old Vaudeville Act. And, doesn’t the “first posted on the internet in 2001” and “first told by GG in 2001” sound a little funny? Was it on the 'net previous to '01? Are there any references to it anywhere before '01? Straight Dope, anyone? Is this actually an old Vaudeville Tradition end/or in-joke among comedians? Or a big hoax perpetrated on us by Gillette? Or soething else entirely? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/2 "2005-08-08T18:48:02Z")
Didn’t Buddy Hackett once tell the joke on the Tonight show (during a break)? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/3 "2005-08-08T18:50:07Z")
Jillette would have the patience if anyone would. He’s set up tricks in books that people will use 100 years from now. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/4 "2005-08-08T18:54:03Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Didn’t Buddy Hackett once tell the joke on the Tonight show (during a break)? > **[Quotes to Remember from “A Walk to Remember”](https://www.thoughtco.com/a-walk-to-remember-quotes-2832856)** > > If you are a fan of the author Nicholas Sparks, you will love the movie So says “Paul Provenza”, the director. If one had suspcions, it doesn’t do much to diminish them. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/5 "2005-08-08T18:54:48Z")
The site referenced in the Answer Man column has [since updated with older cites](http://slumbering.lungfish.com/index.php?p=morearistocrats.1122906310). Including [a 1999 newsgroups post](http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.tasteless.jokes/msg/c8276d1e9c4bc6ae). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/6 "2005-08-08T19:54:28Z")
Yeah, but the _1972_ book referenced there is the real find. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/7 "2005-08-08T20:48:20Z")
They mention a book by tittle near the begining of the movie. No, I didn’t take notes, and no I don’t recall the name of said book. ---
**Author:** ![Tammi\_Terrell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Tammi\_Terrell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tammi_Terrell)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/8 "2005-08-09T01:29:26Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Yeah, but the _1972_ book referenced there is the real find. Yep, Gershon Legman recounts a very spare version (see below) of “The Aristocrats” along with a short commentary on the last page of the second in the series of _Rationale of the Dirty Joke_. [1] But what’s more important than that 1972 publication date (of the British edition) is that Legman was quite scrupulous in keeping notes about where and when he heard everything he collected and later recounted. The version he shares in _Rationale_ is accompanied by a notation that it was told to him in New York in 1953. (Legman even comments on _why_ this joke happened to be the original teller’s favorite.) – Tammi Terrell [1] In Chapter 15, “Scatology” (pp. 810-987); Section 3, “All to Shit” (pp. 970-987). From _Rationale of the Dirty Joke: An Analysis of Sexual Humor; Second Series_. New York: Bell Publishing Company, 1975. A vaudeville performer is describing his act to a skeptical booking-agent. “It’s very simple. My wife and I shit on the stage, and then the kids come out and wallow in it.” Agent, thunderstruck: “What kind of an act do you call that?” Vaudevillian, polishing his fingernails on his lapel: “We call it – The Aristocrats”! ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/9 "2005-08-09T02:12:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Secondly, I can’t find any evidence that the joke was posted to the Internet before 2001. Since when does a joke have to be posted on the internet in order to be a legitimate joke? The ‘Answer Man’ needs a better answer than that. I, for one, first heard the joke in the early 1990’s. Only a three-minute version. I like the ‘spare’ version above. Short. Sweet. Effective. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/10 "2005-08-09T02:20:53Z")
Just a little nitpick.clarification: it was purported to be a vaudeville tradition, but not a routine. It would never be performed for an audience. It was only shared among comedians, backstage. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/11 "2005-08-09T02:29:26Z")
> [@postcards](#): > > Since when does a joke have to be posted on the internet in order to be a legitimate joke? The ‘Answer Man’ needs a better answer than that. The “Answer Man” said that it probably wasn’t a hoax, because so many people in the industry represent it as an old, old joke. The quote was from Lore Sjöberg, late of the Brunching Shuttlecocks. Coming from him, I’m more inclined to think of it as a meta-hoax. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bonitahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7993a0/32.png) [@bonitahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonitahi)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/12 "2005-08-09T02:45:23Z")
It is, in fact, perpetuated by Andrew Kaufman. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/13 "2005-08-09T03:01:41Z")
It’s pretty impressive how fast that got into the Answer Man, considering it was posted to the blog on July 31st. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/14 "2005-08-09T05:46:37Z")
Unless this is the wrong forum, can anyone explain _why_ the joke is supposed to be funny? I’ve read a few variations now and I really don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/15 "2005-08-09T06:45:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Unless this is the wrong forum, can anyone explain why the joke is supposed to be funny? I’ve read a few variations now and I really don’t get it. Well the punchline, “The Aristocrats” is merely a very lame juxtopositioning. To be aristocratic is to be very snooty and high-brow (after telling the most foul, low-brow thing imaginable). The key to it though is that its not about the punchline, its about the delivery. That is, coming up with a different and even more disgusting description. IOW its the journey, not the destination… ---
**Author:** ![TastesLikeBurning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@TastesLikeBurning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TastesLikeBurning)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/16 "2005-08-09T06:46:09Z")
For fans of South Park and Cartman in particular, here’s a link to a short clip which is relevant to this thread. Absolutely obscene language, so be careful where you open it. [South Park Aristocrats](http://www.lnreview.co.uk/media/journal/001842.php) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/17 "2005-08-09T07:08:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Unless this is the wrong forum, can anyone explain why the joke is supposed to be funny? I’ve read a few variations now and I really don’t get it. It’s an inside joke. The equivalent of saying “Hi Opal” or “Once in 1960. For twenty minutes” or “Penis ensues”. The point isn’t to actually be funny - in fact, because everyone already knows the joke, it can’t work as a traditional joke. The point is that telling this story amongst themselves is a ritual among stand-up comedians that lets them treat each other as part of distinct group. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-aristocrats-really-an-old-vaudeville-tradition/316152/18 "2005-08-09T12:44:35Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > It’s an inside joke. The equivalent of saying “Hi Opal” or “Once in 1960. For twenty minutes” or “Penis ensues”. The point isn’t to actually be funny - in fact, because everyone already knows the joke, it can’t work as a traditional joke. The point is that telling this story amongst themselves is a ritual among stand-up comedians that lets them treat each other as part of distinct group. Well, there is that, but it _is_ supposed to be funny. At least all the improvised bits in the middle… Like a well-told shaggy dog story, the humor is in the details and delivery.