# Is the atheist worldview depressing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 4, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996 "2019-06-04T02:59:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/181 "2019-06-06T18:10:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, I’m going to continue to correct you for as long as you persist in wilfully misbeliefing me. And what belief or lack of belief have I wrongly attributed to you? > [@](#): > > Yes, I know, I was taking part in some, before you started questioning my religious thought. I’ve had no problem in engaging in other discussions as well. > [@](#): > > Telling people, unasked, that they’re mistaken about their own religious thinking isn’t civilised disagreement. Saying that you are not _exactly_ an atheist (your italics there) is an open invitation to ask questions, heck, as others have said, _anything_ you post on here is open to question. The only mistake I can see in you position is that you refuse to admit that having a lack of belief in a god or gods means one is an atheist. I don’t know why you persist in asserting that, especially seeing as it makes no difference at all to the rest of what you have (very sensibly) said. > [@](#): > > I’m starting to see what theists have against certain stripes of atheists, I can say that much…which is, ironically, a pretty depressing thought. I didn’t know I was a “stripe” of atheist. What sort am I? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/182 "2019-06-06T20:53:34Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > And what belief or lack of belief have I wrongly attributed to you? Atheism > [@](#): > > I’ve had no problem in engaging in other discussions as well. Well, _you’re_ not the one being bullied about your belief system, so … nice for you, I guess? > [@](#): > > Saying that you are not _exactly_ an atheist (your italics there) is an open invitation to ask questions, I qualified it to point out\* to the OP\* that I was participating even though I didn’t meet his poll criterion. And I had no problem answering the _initial_ question. That’s just asking a question, not what I meant by “questioning my religious thought”. That’s not what I have a problem with. It’s the subsequent attempted erasure of my religious identity and assigning of an unasked, unwanted one, that I don’t want. > [@](#): > > heck, as others have said, _anything_ you post on here is open to question. I answered your question. The polite thing to do would be to go “Oh, OK.” and then drop it. Not tell me that I’m mistaken about my own identity. > [@](#): > > The only mistake I can see in you position is that you refuse to admit that having a lack of belief in a god or gods means one is an atheist. Believing the truth value of “God exists” is negative is what makes one an atheist. I don’t share that belief. So I’m not an atheist. > [@](#): > > I don’t know why you persist in asserting that, Asserting what, exactly? I mean, we’ve already seen that you’ve been mistaken in what I have “clearly stated” before in this thread (“multiple times” at that), so tell me, _exactly_ what have I persisted in asserting? > [@](#): > > I didn’t know I was a “stripe” of atheist. What sort am I? _Absolutely_ the wrong forum to say. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/183 "2019-06-06T20:58:29Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You didn’t ask me, but I’m gonna tell ya that I think is ridiculous. You posted your position on a discussion forum; anything posted on that forum is fodder for commentary: There’s commentary, and then there’s bullying. > [@](#): > > it’s the nature of the medium and therefore your permission is implicit by posting there in the first place. Gosh, where’ve I heard that stupid argument before? Oh, yes, “You have a telephone, therefore you want telemarketers to call you”. Gosh, let’s see how well t[hat argument](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=51270)goes. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/184 "2019-06-06T22:20:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Believing the truth value of “God exists” is negative is what makes one an atheist. Which is exactly where you’ve been mistaken all along. To be an atheist one simply does not accept that the truth value of “god exists” is positive. That’s it. No _negative_ belief of the truth value required at all. If I grab a handful of rice and tell you that there an even number of grains in that handful I suspect you will not agree with my claim. You will not have a positive belief in the truth value of that statement. And yet, you are not holding a negative belief in the truth value of that statement are you? You are simply witholding your agreement. That’s the status of an atheist in respect of theistic claims. But I’ve repeated this to you so many times that you clearly aren’t going to accept it and there’s little value in stating it again. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/185 "2019-06-06T22:26:50Z")
**Mr Dibble** , no one has challenged what your beliefs are. The side discussion is about language not beliefs. For some reason you refuse to accept the word “atheist” to describe your beliefs. Personally, given what you have said in this thread, I would describe you as an atheist. That doesn’t mean I think you have a mindset that you don’t in fact have, this just means that I think “atheist” means something different from what you do. I find it difficult to understand your specific issue with it, I can only suspect it is similar to the distinction some people make between “believing god/s don’t exist”, and “not believing god/s exists”. The first statement is stronger than the second but both are a form of atheism. > [@Grestarian](#): > > For the “Is there a god?” question there are many alternative answers > [ul] > [li]Yes[/li][li]No[/li][li]Not enough evidence/data[/li][li]Incoherent (poorly defined) question (or terms); please improve and restate it [/li][li]I have no opinion on the matter (though I have thought about it)[/li][li] **The question is not worthy of my attention.** [/li][li]There are as many more as there are people on the planet, I’m sure…[/li][/ul] Sure, but for the question “do you believe in a god?” there are only two answers. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/186 "2019-06-06T22:31:37Z")
I forgot to address the OP. I think the world and universe it exists in is an amazing place, not depressing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/187 "2019-06-06T22:32:13Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It’s the subsequent attempted erasure of my religious identity I only ever said that, despite what you claim, you are an atheist. I’m assigning you “atheism” in _addition_ to the other philosophical positions you take, not instead of. I made no attempt to erase your religious identity and couldn’t if I tried. I even stated that the other things you said were sensible and so they are. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/188 "2019-06-06T23:06:57Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > I forgot to address the OP. I think the world and universe it exists in is an amazing place, not depressing at all. So, perhaps this kind of atheist? > [@Lieutenant Scheisskopf's wife](#): > > The God I don’t believe in is a good God, a just God, a merciful God. He’s not the mean and stupid God you make him out to be. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/189 "2019-06-06T23:27:32Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Yeah, there are two types of things: those that _can_ be divided into two categories, and those that — hey, wait a minute. > > Coming back around: there are theists who don’t happen to believe in an afterlife, right? Are there, likewise, atheists who _do_ believe in an afterlife? If so, then what are the ramifications for this thread? Good point. Though atheists tend to be skeptics and don’t believe in an afterlife, there is no reason that an atheist cannot believe in a godless afterlife. Or reincarnation for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/190 "2019-06-06T23:38:11Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Even though my answer to the question “do you _dis_believe in God?” is _also_ not yes? That’s some wildly inconsistent use of language and logic, there. Yeah, see, I actually know what the words mean (and how logic works, for that matter), and there is no conflict here. The number zero is neither positive nor negative - but it _is_ non-positive. Atheism means “lack of positive belief.” You claim you’re a zero? Sure! I will cheerfully accept that you’re a zero. Guess what that makes you. > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > All this arguing about who’s an atheist and who’s an agnostic and why you (whoever you are) are wrong about the whole thing – this is why we atheists can’t have nice things, like regular social gatherings for fellowship. That is the only thing I envy the religious for. Atheists in general seem to be pretty picky about terminology. This is probably partly because the demographic leans analytical, and partly because atheism has been conflated with things like _satanism_ - so we’d rather not let the definition slip, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/191 "2019-06-06T23:44:28Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Good point. Though atheists tend to be skeptics and don’t believe in an afterlife, there is no reason that an atheist cannot believe in a godless afterlife. Or reincarnation for that matter. I’m not sure many actually _do_, though. The kind of thinking that makes one skeptical of the existence of gods would apply equally well to disbelieving souls, and if you’re not positing some sort of handy inexplicable spirit to carry your mind around for you you have to posit some other mechanism by which your consciousness can be extracted/copied out of your dying brain and placed into something else that can keep it going. Which is not to say that I _can’t_ theorize such a mechanism, but it seems to almost immediately get quite elaborate and ends up tripping over that razor that Occam left lying there. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/192 "2019-06-06T23:48:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The gods of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Deists, the Brahman of Hindus. > > Incoherent =/= silly. > No, I did. Because I find the way it is described to be silly. Since I did not describe this god at all, I wonder how you get to call it silly. That I think belief in it (or disbelief in it) is silly has nothing to do with incoherence. Lack of belief in it is not silly. > [@](#): > > No. That is not what belief means. You’re claiming to be a mind-reader, or just accusing your debate opponents of being liars about what they _really_ believe. Neither is honest debating.No. Exactly what do you think I mean by belief which you are rejecting? Do you think that it is a bad idea to believe based on at least some evidence? Notice I am not claiming that people do this. You do seem to have your own private vocabulary. Not the first time this has been noted in this thread. > [@](#): > > Once again, saying the proposition is incoherent is NOT a statement of disbelief in the proposition. It’s a critique of the proposition, not an assessment of its truth value. > [@](#): > > Notice I never claimed that incoherence is a statement of disbelief. I was saying that noticing something was incoherent should be a reason to not believe in it. > [@](#): > > Because the IPU is a proposition that (hopefully) _everyone_ can see is incoherent, it is both incoherent _and_ silly. But people act as if “deity exists” is a coherent proposition. Boy, do they act on it. Which renders it far from silly. I was active in alt.atheism when the IPU was invented, and I can tell you it was named such specifically to be self-contradictory and incoherent. But not more self-contradictory and incoherent than the concept of the Trinity or the tri-omni god. It was originally used to attack special pleading. If someone gives Jesus a special position which does not have to be argued for or demonstrated, why not the IPU? People believe in sillier things, after all. > [@](#): > > Perhaps it would help if \*other people \*just left me alone to self-describe my own beliefs, and didn’t feel obligated to label them as other than what they are? Well, if I say I hate the color yellow, and when giving examples of what I hate I point to red things, people will get confused. People in this thread are confused about what you believe in, what you lack belief in, and what things you neither believe or lack belief in. And when someone tries to pin you down, you go to existence. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/193 "2019-06-07T00:05:36Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I’m not sure many actually _do_, though. The kind of thinking that makes one skeptical of the existence of gods would apply equally well to disbelieving souls, and if you’re not positing some sort of handy inexplicable spirit to carry your mind around for you you have to posit some other mechanism by which your consciousness can be extracted/copied out of your dying brain and placed into something else that can keep it going. > > Which is not to say that I _can’t_ theorize such a mechanism, but it seems to almost immediately get quite elaborate and ends up tripping over that razor that Occam left lying there. I could conceive of a setup where this is all virtual reality and when you die it’s “game over” and you get to try again or perhaps do whatever it is you do when you’re not wasting time at an arcade parlour playing a VR game. I don’t believe it, but it is a theoretical scenario where you could believe there was more than just this life while also not believing in gods. I agree though that, in general, atheists would not typically be believing anything that doesn’t have reasonable supporting evidence. Which puts life after death out of the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/194 "2019-06-07T00:08:50Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > I’m not sure many actually _do_, though. The kind of thinking that makes one skeptical of the existence of gods would apply equally well to disbelieving souls, and if you’re not positing some sort of handy inexplicable spirit to carry your mind around for you you have to posit some other mechanism by which your consciousness can be extracted/copied out of your dying brain and placed into something else that can keep it going. > > Which is not to say that I _can’t_ theorize such a mechanism, but it seems to almost immediately get quite elaborate and ends up tripping over that razor that Occam left lying there. From my long ago Eastern Religions class, it seemed that Buddhists originally believed in no gods and in an after life/ reincarnation. But I agree, it is not very common these days for atheists to believe in this. Though I think Heinlein believed in an afterlife, so there is one example. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/195 "2019-06-07T08:19:41Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > To be an atheist one simply does not accept that the truth value of “god exists” is positive. No. It is to think you can have a truth value, think you have enough evidence to decide, and think it’s not positive. Your definition, for instance, subsumes all agnostics under atheists. Which is how we know it’s wrong. > [@](#): > > If I grab a handful of rice and tell you that there an even number of grains in that handful I suspect you will not agree with my claim. You will not have a positive belief in the truth value of that statement. And yet, you are not holding a negative belief in the truth value of that statement are you? You are simply witholding your agreement. That’s the status of an atheist in respect of theistic claims. No, that’s an agnostic. > [@](#): > > But I’ve repeated this to you so many times that you clearly aren’t going to accept it and there’s little value in stating it again. …yet here you are. > [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > **Mr Dibble** , no one has challenged what your beliefs are. Oh but they have. “Theological noncognitivists are not the same as atheists” is a fairly core tenet of my beliefs. > [@](#): > > Sure, but for the question “do you believe in a god?” there are only two answers. NO, there are at least 4. “Yes”, No", “Can’t say yet” and “What do you mean?” are all valid answers. Also, apparently “Yawn!” is a valid answer too. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I only ever said that, despite what you claim, you are an atheist. …despite me emphatically telling you I am not. > [@](#): > > I’m assigning you “atheism” in _addition_ to the other philosophical positions you take, not instead of. …and it’s still wrong. > [@](#): > > I made no attempt to erase your religious identity and couldn’t if I tried. You are very definitely denying me the part of my religious identity that says I am not an atheist. > [@begbert2](#): > > The number zero is neither positive nor negative - but it _is_ non-positive. Atheism means “lack of positive belief.” You claim you’re a zero? Sure! I will cheerfully accept that you’re a zero. Guess what that makes you. I am not claiming to be a zero. I am claiming to not even be on that numberline. > [@](#): > > Atheists in general seem to be pretty picky about terminology. A…and you think theological noncognitivists are\* more\* sloppy? That makes me laugh. > [@](#): > > This is probably partly because the demographic leans analytical, and partly because atheism has been conflated with things like _satanism_ - so we’d rather not let the definition slip, thanks. Using it for things it doesn’t apply to is the opposite of conflating it with things it isn’t. TN introduces _more_ clarity about what atheism is and isn’t, not _less_. Whereas applying atheism to TN is expansionist evangelism - I thought that’s the kind of thing most atheists _disliked_ about theistic religions. It was for me when I thought I was an atheist. > [@Voyager](#): > > Since I did not describe this god at all, I wonder how you get to call it silly. Because I find the idea of a “god” of one distant planet inherently silly. It’s an idea from bad Sword-and-Planet SF, so I laugh at it. > [@](#): > > You do seem to have your own private vocabulary. Not the first time this has been noted in this thread. :rolleyes: Not the first time I’ve had to address this strawman in this thread, either. _Not_ my private vocabulary. Here, read [someone else](https://infidels.org/library/modern/theodore_drange/definition.html) on the subject and tell me I’m speaking my own language… > [@](#): > > I was active in alt.atheism when the IPU was invented, and I can tell you it was named such specifically to be self-contradictory and incoherent. But not more self-contradictory and incoherent than the concept of the Trinity or the tri-omni god. I agree. But like I said before, it isn’t coherence that renders those gods non-silly. > [@](#): > > People in this thread are confused about what you believe in, what you lack belief in, and what things you neither believe or lack belief in. That’s odd, because I’ve been quite explicit in all of those. Perhaps if people were less invested in pinning their own beliefs on me, as if they were counting coup for their side, they could go back and read what I actually wrote about what I believe. > [@](#): > > And when someone tries to pin you down, you go to existence. Because “Deity exists” is the central proposition under consideration. Are you arguing that’s not the case? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/196 "2019-06-07T08:34:38Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Though I think Heinlein believed in an afterlife, so there is one example. Heinlein was an agnostic, not an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/197 "2019-06-07T08:57:59Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No. It is to think you can have a truth value, think you have enough evidence to decide, and think it’s not positive. No, to be clear. I have \*not \*decided. I just remain unconvinced and thus free of any belief in a god. > [@](#): > > Your definition, for instance, subsumes all agnostics under atheists. Which is how we know it’s wrong. The definition of atheist I’m using makes no reference to knowledge at all. A theist can be an agnostic. > [@](#): > > No, that’s an agnostic. But not _only_ an agnostic. As long as they remain unconvinced that the number is even, they are an atheist. They can say “I won’t agree that it is even. I don’t know how many grains there are and I don’t think you do either and I’m not sure it is possible to know” That person is agnostic (to do with the limits of knowledge) and atheist (to do with an absence of belief in the claim of “even”). Notice, _at no point_ is it necessary to hold the opinion that the claim is false, that the opposite is true and that the number is odd. Now they may also believe that you are right, i.e. that the number really is even. They may believe that because it feels right to them, or they like even numbers, or they trust you. But at the same time they do not have the necessary knowledge of the number of grains and may think that it is never possible to accurately count the grains. Hey presto! an agnostic theist. That’s just a simplified analogy of course. As it happens, a discrete number of grains in the real world is something about which it is possible to have definite knowledge which is why, in my humble opinion, Religions often shy away from couching their god hypothesis in quite such tangible and empirical terms. Agnosticism is the correct response to many of those because as described we may see no way of gathering any knowledge about them at all. That does rather raise the question of how the religious come to be so certain of the nature and qualities of their gods but hey, such is faith I guess. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/198 "2019-06-07T09:29:12Z")
Theist, atheist and agnostic are all mutually exclusive viewpoints.They are all stances on the truth value of “God exists” as a proposition. You can’t be an atheist and an agnostic at the same time. If you’re undecided because you believe the current evidence is insufficient, you’re an agnostic, not an atheist. But unconvinced is not the same as undecided. If you’re unconvinced by the current evidence, rather than saying you can’t make a decision, then you’re an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/199 "2019-06-07T11:38:58Z")
I don’t find the atheist viewpoint depressing, at least not for what it says about what we are, or our place in the universe, or what kind of world we can/should create for ourselves. Atheists can and do find great meaning in their lives, just as surely as religious people do. We form fulfilling relationships with individuals and communities, we appreciate natural and artificial beauty in its many forms, and we experience great wonderment at the seemingly boundless complexities and capabilities of the bags of chemical reactions that are our bodies. Our experiences of love, hate, anger, sadness, humor, pride are no less compelling for us than they are for believers. We can be (and typically are) moral creatures; as many animals demonstrate, [belief in the supernatural is not a requirement for the development of a moral code.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le-74R9C6Bc) With no belief in an afterlife, I suspect most atheists would place a greater value on physical existence than believers; we believe this existence is our _only_ existence, and to have it taken away prematurely by disease, misadventure or misdeed is much more tragic than if one believes that the departed has merely moved on to another plane of existence. However, there is one depressing aspect, described in [this Cracked article](https://www.cracked.com/blog/20-facts-that-will-make-you-understand-america-or-not/), as point #8. It’s one thing to be in the minority (90% of Americans believe in God), but it’s worse than that. Most people do not like or trust atheists, to the extent that (for example) a whole lot of them would never consider voting one into office. The tagline is this: > [@Cracked](#): > > Nonbelievers vastly underestimate how important belief in the supernatural is to the species at large. Lots and lots of the decisions people make that affect you on a day-to-day basis are made based on magic, because a horoscope, medium, or answered prayer told them to. To be a part of that 10% is to be profoundly out of touch with how the average person thinks. Being an atheist in the present day means you’re very much an outsider, to the point of being regarded with hostility and suspicion by the majority. That is indeed rather depressing. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/200 "2019-06-07T14:40:31Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Atheists can and do find great meaning in their lives, just as surely as religious people do. We form fulfilling relationships with individuals and communities, we appreciate natural and artificial beauty in its many forms, and we experience great wonderment at the seemingly boundless complexities and capabilities of the bags of chemical reactions that are our bodies. Our experiences of love, hate, anger, sadness, humor, pride are no less compelling for us than they are for believers. I think there is a case to be made that the meaning found by atheists carries even \*greater \*importance because it is what we make for ourselves, we don’t think there is any greater force imposing in on us and dictating what meaning we must find. If there is an omipotent being guiding it then none of it is our own work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996.md?page=11)