# Is the atheist worldview depressing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 4, 2019, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996 "2019-06-04T02:59:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/61 "2019-06-04T16:27:03Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > What if you do not say that your are an atheist yet still do not believe in the existence of deities? “Not a theist” > [@](#): > > Into what are you buying? If you’re not taking part in debates that assume everyone knows what they mean by “God”, and that whatever that is, is a coherent concept, then you don’t really have a need to buy into one, do you? The names are just convenient labels for debate sides. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I don’t see what that has to do with my atheism. I don’t make a claim that god doesn’t exist. No, but I assume you, at a minimum to call yourself that, claim not to believe in god/gods. I don’t “not believe” in incoherent concepts, I call them out as incoherent. > [@](#): > > there is no need for the quotes. Apparently yes, there is. > [@](#): > > If you are not a theist, you are an atheist, that really is as simple as it gets. Don’t tell me what I do or don’t not believe, please. I don’t _not_ believe in gods. Does that make me a theist? > [@](#): > > Remember, being an atheist is not the same as saying any given god \*doesn’t \*exist. I’m well aware. > [@](#): > > It is only the position that you do not have that belief. No. It’s not “not belief”, it’s “belief not”. Rocks and trees aren’t atheists. > [@](#): > > For the latter it is merely enough that a case hasn’t been made. That may be through incoherence or lack of evidence or some other reason. No. Non-theism because the very idea of deity put forward is incoherent is _not_ the same thing as being an atheist because of, say, the Problem of Evil or the Problem of Shoddy Design.It’s a different category of argument from the atheist one. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/62 "2019-06-04T16:31:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Some are benevolent, some are vindictive, some are indifferent, some are pretty, some are witty and some are wise… So whether a _theistic_ worldview is depressing, or comforting, or invigorating, or scary, or joyful, or… is going to depend on _what_ God the theist believes in, and what they believe about that God. Some atheists come to atheism by rejecting or relinquishing belief in a formerly-held theistic worldview. Whether they feel depression or liberation or grief or joy or relief or nothing much at all about that rejection is going to depend on how they feel about the God they rejected. ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/63 "2019-06-04T16:33:42Z")
whose to say there isn’t a non-christian based afterlife that’s more awesome than heaven? why cant there be something after death that isn’t religion based? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/64 "2019-06-04T16:38:11Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > whose to say there isn’t a non-christian based afterlife that’s more awesome than heaven? why cant there be something after death that isn’t religion based? “Not Christian” is not the same as “Not Religious”. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/65 "2019-06-04T16:53:00Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > This fundamentally depends on the definition of God as a benevolent entity. Something you assume without evidence. No, it appears to be something _you_ have assumed without evidence: that that is what I mean when I say “God”. Calling God an entity is an oversimplification that misrepresents. It would be far closer (and less of an oversimplification) to say that God is an abstraction. Benevolence, as I think you mean it, isn’t relevant to my notion of what an atheist worldview would constitute. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/66 "2019-06-04T17:07:40Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > **Hermitian** could you please show me one devoutly religioua person to whom the laws of complex chemical reactions do not apply? Who could drink a bottle of poison and not be affected, or walk off a 50 foot building and not be harmed. Well, there was that guy who Alexandria Romanov was palling around with. Took the guys all night to find some way to finally kill him. So they say. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/67 "2019-06-04T17:47:28Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > No, it appears to be something _you_ have assumed without evidence: that that is what I mean when I say “God”. Apologies if I’ve misconstrued what you were trying to say. I frequently find that I have problems parsing what you’re posting. QED: > [@AHunter3](#): > > Calling God an entity is an oversimplification that misrepresents. It would be far closer (and less of an oversimplification) to say that God is an abstraction. Benevolence, as I think you mean it, isn’t relevant to my notion of what an atheist worldview would constitute. I’m sure the fault is mine. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/68 "2019-06-04T18:19:32Z")
I would find it depressing to think that we were all created by a god just so there would be someone to worship him, and the purpose of our lives would be to live up to his arbitrary code of behavior, and he loves us all but will send us to hell if we don’t do what he wants, and even the people that believe in him do not agree on just what does he want, and there is no reason to believe any of this whatsoever except what certain people invent in their heads and sometimes write down. That’s what _I_ find depressing. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/69 "2019-06-04T18:20:06Z")
When I was a child, I had parents who were pretty much absent, bordering on negligent. I grew up knowing they were indifferent to pretty much everything that happened to me but that exceptions would be made for my behavior so punishment was on the table but pretty much never any reward. That’s pretty much how I see theism and I find THAT depressing. On the other hand, I know myself to be an integral part of a vast and complicated system of matter and energy, a little wave form that pleases itself to think itself a discrete being for a period of time and that when I die my matter will be incorporated into other beings and systems, as will my energy. The only “I” that will cease to exist is my temporary belief that I’m a unique individual but the rest of me will go on endlessly becoming part of other systems and beings in perpetuity and I find that to be as far from depressing as it’s possible to get. I am infinite and undying–heck, that kinda makes me a bit godlike myself, right? I have always been and always will be and I’m a part of everything and am therefore never alone. Nope, not depressing. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/70 "2019-06-04T18:21:15Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > “Not a theist” Which just means “atheist”. > [@](#): > > I assume you, at a minimum to call yourself that, claim not to believe in god/gods. I don’t have any belief in a god or gods. I’ve never had a belief, I’ve never been convinced by any evidence of gods that I’m aware of and of course cannot have any belief in those gods that I haven’t heard about, I’m not a theist, I’m an a-theist. Not sure how clear you want it to be. > [@](#): > > I don’t “not believe” in incoherent concepts, I call them out as incoherent. feel free to do so, as long as you remain without a belief in that incoherent concept you are “a-whateverthatconceptis” > [@](#): > > Don’t tell me what I do or don’t not believe, please. I’m not telling you, you are telling me. you are an atheist by any reasonable interpretation of the word. Certainly in the way that I use it and I suspect by most others. Not sure why you are so against using a word that…as many have already said, tells us nothing about a person other that the fact that they have no belief in a god. > [@](#): > > I don’t _not_ believe in gods. Does that make me a theist? You say you aren’t a theist so I’ll take you at your word, you are an “a-theist” > [@](#): > > No. It’s not “not belief”, it’s “belief not”. Rocks and trees aren’t atheists. rocks and trees aren’t capable of taking any position on matters of belief so they fall outside of this discussion but certainly they have exactly the same amount of belief in a god that you or I do. > [@](#): > > No. Non-theism because the very idea of deity put forward is incoherent is _not_ the same thing as being an atheist because of, say, the Problem of Evil or the Problem of Shoddy Design.It’s a different category of argument from the atheist one. No, there is no functional difference. Not having a belief in a god or gods, for whatever reason, means you are an atheist. You can use “non-theist” in whatever special way you choose but you are, and I will describe you as, an atheist. The non-theist is something you are adding on top and it seems to me that you are applying it only towards those gods that have adequately defined for you. You are of course free to do that. You remain an atheist in general as well as a non-theist with regards to specific gods. I think you are hung up on the word for some reason I can’t fathom, perhaps it carries too many negative connotations in your society. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/71 "2019-06-04T18:22:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Nothing? > “It is asserted by Steven J. Conifer that to be a positive atheist, one who not only lacks a belief in gods but who furthermore denies that gods exist, is to give credence to the existence of a concept of something for God to refer to, because it assumes that there is something understandable to not believe in.” When someone talks about positive atheism, you know he is either an idiot or constructing a strawman. Positive atheists are scarcer than hen’s teeth in the real world. I don’t remember even a single Doper with this position. In 45 years of discussing religion on line I remember maybe one person who made that claim, and he was denounced by atheists, not theists. I’ve been listening to a lot of atheist YouTube videos, and their hosts - to a person - specifically deny being positive atheists. > [@](#): > > No, you shouldn’t do that. That’s acknowledging the argument is coherent, but wrong. Incoherent arguments don’t _have_ truth values. > > Basically, if you say you’re an atheist, you’re buying into meaningless gibberish, is what we’re saying. As an atheist I leave it to theists to tell me what gods they believe in, so I can not believe in them. Lack of belief in any god is the default (which should be obvious) and I can give reasons I don’t believe in specific ones. There are some gods, like tri-omni ones, which are logically self-contradictory, so it is easy to not believe in them, and i n fact to state they don’t exist. I don’t know if they count as incoherent to you. There are gods like the Greek gods which are not logically contradictory, and for whom the problem of evil doesn’t exist since they make no claim of omnibenevolence. We can not believe in them due to lack of evidence, but they are hardly incoherent. > [@](#): > > I may not be a theist, but I’m not “an atheist”, any more than I’m an “aWnigooglllist”, and for the same reason. Arguing Religion is like [Nuclear War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGames), the only winning move is not to play. Not playing says nothing about belief or lack of belief. Tom Paine was not an atheist, since he believed in a deistic universe creating god. Just not the Western one. Your link mentions pink unicorns, I missed the concept of them being invisible. IPUs are logically self-contradictory and I’d accept them being called incoherent. Which is a good reason to not believe in them, or do you think we should just not discuss them? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/72 "2019-06-04T18:28:25Z")
Atheism is definitely not depressing to me. When I see horrible things happen in the world, like tornadoes and tsunamis, I’m sad, but not as sad as if I thought there was a god who supposedly loves us either letting these things happen or causing them. As for life after death, I agree that I don’t want to be around to watch the last proton decay, but more immediately the news is depressing enough already. I don’t want to watch the impact of global warming from heaven. Me: You want to do something about that, God? God: Screw 'em. Anyhow, an afterlife without books, movies, jigsaw puzzles and sex is not one I want any part of. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/73 "2019-06-04T18:28:38Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > On the other hand, I know myself to be an integral part of a vast and complicated system of matter and energy, a little wave form that pleases itself to think itself a discrete being for a period of time and that when I die my matter will be incorporated into other beings and systems, as will my energy. The only “I” that will cease to exist is my temporary belief that I’m a unique individual but the rest of me will go on endlessly becoming part of other systems and beings in perpetuity and I find that to be as far from depressing as it’s possible to get. I am infinite and undying–heck, that kinda makes me a bit godlike myself, right? I have always been and always will be and I’m a part of everything and am therefore never alone. Nope, not depressing. Carl Sagan put it neatly when he said that we are all made of star-stuff. How true and how amazing. Our atoms forged and re-forged in the cores of a billion suns. It is poetic and awe-inspiring in a way that a magic being can’t match. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/74 "2019-06-04T19:01:57Z")
I find theism depressing myself. The desire to believe a caring diety created existence despite the fact that that hypothesis isn’t remotely supported by the evidence. Plus the problem of evil, trying to invent a reason a loving and powerful God allows evil and always ending up empty handed. Atheism can be depressing. The reality of natural selection can be overwhelming at times. Just accepting that natural selection invented evil and pain and is totally amoral, and that there is no overarching plan. It’s all just random. But I think the view is also very heroic. Humans are risen monkeys. We’ve risen from bacteria to become animals that can think and we use our tools to help each other many times. We invent medicines, rockets, computers, human rights documents, etc. I’m sure one day we will be an immortal, interstellar species. It’s a very heroic thing seeing humanity rise above the ignorance and pain of biology. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/75 "2019-06-04T19:12:38Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Can someone tell me what the atheist world view is? I’m not a very devout atheist so I’m not up on all the dogma. Well, there is always [Atheism+](https://www.atheistrev.com/2013/10/what-atheism-could-have-been.html). ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/76 "2019-06-04T19:13:32Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > The first thing to say is that there is a common misconception about what “atheist” means. It does not mean a person is certain there is no god. What do you call a person who is certain there is no god? There is no Word Usage Board. If there is a “common” usage then that’s what it means. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Remember, being an atheist is not the same as saying any given god \*doesn’t \*exist. It is only the position that you do not have that belief. For the former you indeed would need to be given a coherent enough explanation to be able to have an opinion. For the latter it is merely enough that a case hasn’t been made. That may be through incoherence or lack of evidence or some other reason. Sounds like you are defining agnostic, not atheist. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/77 "2019-06-04T19:24:44Z")
Not in the slightest, if I wasn’t already an atheist, two personal experiences would have pushed me that way anyway; 1; Dad, a well respected deacon at the local church falling victim to undiagnosed Lyme Disease, progressing to chronic Lyme, turning a healthy outdoorsman into a bedridden invalid and then into a fatal coma 2; my cousin, a preacher at his local church losing EVERYTHING he owned, and their beloved Great Dane to a house fire, a house fire that occurred WHILE THEY WERE AT CHURCH! You’d think a supposed “supreme” being would take better care of his employees/ spokespeople ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/78 "2019-06-04T19:37:55Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > On the other hand, I know myself to be an integral part of a vast and complicated system of matter and energy, a little wave form that pleases itself to think itself a discrete being for a period of time and that when I die my matter will be incorporated into other beings and systems, as will my energy. The only “I” that will cease to exist is my temporary belief that I’m a unique individual but the rest of me will go on endlessly becoming part of other systems and beings in perpetuity and I find that to be as far from depressing as it’s possible to get. I am infinite and undying–heck, that kinda makes me a bit godlike myself, right? I have always been and always will be and I’m a part of everything and am therefore never alone. Nope, not depressing. I love this…A friend of mine sums this up by simply saying “I’m made of star stuff.” On edit: Looks like Novelty Bobble beat me to the punch. And I did not know that was from Sagan. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/79 "2019-06-04T19:38:31Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Sounds like you are defining agnostic, not atheist. No, but the two are often wrongly conflated. Atheism is merely about whether one holds a belief or not. Agnosticism relates to not thinking it is possible to know anything about god. An atheist might be described as an agnostic, Indeed you can be a theist agnostic as well. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996/80 "2019-06-04T19:44:36Z")
> [@BeagleJesus](#): > > I love this…A friend of mine sums this up by simply saying “I’m made of star stuff.” > > On edit: Looks like Novelty Bobble beat me to the punch. And I did not know that was from Sagan. There can never be too much Sagan! It’s good to know the phrase is out there and being used in the wild. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-atheist-worldview-depressing/834996.md?page=5)