# Is the average American stupid? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 14, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375 "2010-05-14T01:37:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/101 "2010-05-15T00:41:35Z")
> [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > Genuinely curious here: When would the average American need to know any of this? Personally, I think it’s most important to know when you get the phone call asking you to donate to the campaign fund for someone running for the Senate in a completely different state. Because it’s important. It’s so important. You don’t want THEM to get this seat. You need to DONATE NOW!!! Of course you may be too cheap to donate to any campaign fund, in which case all you need to know is how to hang up the phone. But if you might be interested in donating under some circumstances, you need to know a few things. How many Senators there are is one. How many Senators are The Wrong Party\* is probably another. Because we’re talking cash, here. \*Or how many Senators vote for and against your List of Important Things. Party isn’t everything. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/102 "2010-05-15T01:50:03Z")
5th graders are around 11 years old, right? Isaac Asimov was wary of boys around that age because they tripped him up occasionally. He told the story of one who asked him what was the second closest star. His reply was that after the Alpha Centauri system, the next closest was Barnard’s Star. The kid said, “Hmm, I thought the Sun was a star.” 🙂 > [@Marley23](#): > > I saw at least one other poster mention it but this needs to be stressed in regard to the OP’s examples: knowledge of trivia is not the same thing as intelligence. (I’m sure intelligence is an advantage with trivia because retention of facts counts, but still, trivia is about remembering things and not necessarily reasoning them out or understanding them.) It’s a great way to convince people that you’re intelligent in conversation and it can make for good TV, but that’s a separate issue. The best tools we have for figuring things out are reason and the scientific method. **But reason is worthless if you don’t have the facts or if the facts you have are wrong.** > [@from\_a\_to\_z](#): > > Please excuse any lapse of etiquette. I don’t want to either comment on grammar or to hijack a thread. However, looking at a 2-dimensional representation of orbits on windows2universe ([link](http://windows2universe.org/mars/mars_orbit.html)), I’d say that Mars (choice C in the clip) also revolves around the earth. The line from Mars to the sun, and passing through the earth, keeps advancing around the sun. You’re not seriously proposing that’s what those responders were thinking, are you? 1/3 of those polled believe the phrase “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs” is in the Constitution. I wonder where they got that idea. Another 1/3 are not sure. [http://www2.law.columbia.edu/news/surveys/survey\_constitution/index.shtml](http://www2.law.columbia.edu/news/surveys/survey_constitution/index.shtml) > [@DanBlather](#): > > We just had an election where a guy who had absolutely no grasp of the tax system > [@Telephone Poll](#): > > ``` > * 84% believe that the U.S. Constitution is the document that states that "all men are created equal", thus confusing it with the Declaration of Independence. > > ``` A while ago some guy who thought that was elected, and he’s supposedly a Constitutional expert. “We find unity in our incredible diversity, drawing on the promise enshrined in our Constitution: the notion that we are all created equal” – President Obama, SOTU address, January 2010. > [@DanBlather](#): > > He became a folk hero, was interviewed on TV, and paid money to speak at events. Hmm. ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/103 "2010-05-15T02:19:26Z")
> [@arnesw](#): > > So far it seems that Americans = people that live in the USA. > > Forgive my ignorance here, but what do you call the rest of those living in America? And where, pray tell, is this place called ‘America’, if not the USA? I have North America, South America … I have _The Americas_ … where’s America? pdts ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/104 "2010-05-15T02:21:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If so, who is to say that that’s bad? Memorizing lists of information is about the most useless thing you can do so long as it is reasonably easy to look that information up. You can train a mentally handicapped kid to name each state and its capital and that’ll let you give the stupidest kid in your class an A if you’re a teacher, but it serves no practical purpose. Whether you can list the names of states has nothing to do with whether or not you can invent a new way of producing CPUs at half the price or some other creative revelation. > > The meaningful aspects of intelligence are: > > The ability to research > The ability to consider information critically > Introspection > Responding to criticism > Imagination > > Rote memorization is a parlor trick. Can’t find a cite, but I seem to remember reading that this is a myth. A solid base of factual knowledge (often gained through memorisation) is essential to doing any creative work in a field. pdts ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/105 "2010-05-15T02:35:42Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > > The meaningful aspects of intelligence are: > > > > The ability to research > > The ability to consider information critically > > Introspection > > Responding to criticism > > Imagination > > > > Rote memorization is a parlor trick. > > Can’t find a cite, but I seem to remember reading that this is a myth. A solid base of factual knowledge (often gained through memorisation) is essential to doing any creative work in a field. Isn’t the ability to prioritize and discriminate among data an aspect of intelligence? What about the ability to hold blocks of data in your head for extended periods of time–the ability to move large amounts of data into long-term memory? I don’t doubt the main list’s importance, and I don’t doubt that over-stressing rote memorization is possible, but to minimize it to a parlour trick and say it’s absolutely useless (if that’s the intended implication) is going a bit far. ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/106 "2010-05-15T02:43:43Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Isn’t the ability to prioritize and discriminate among data an aspect of intelligence? What about the ability to hold blocks of data in your head for extended periods of time–the ability to move large amounts of data into long-term memory? I don’t doubt the main list’s importance, and I don’t doubt that over-stressing rote memorization is possible, but to minimize it to a parlour trick and say it’s absolutely useless (if that’s the intended implication) is going a bit far. Are you intending to disagree with me, or with the poster I quoted? pdts ---
**Author:** ![Archeonomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Archeonomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archeonomist)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/107 "2010-05-15T02:44:04Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > And where, pray tell, is this place called ‘America’, if not the USA? > > I have North America, South America … I have _The Americas_ … where’s America? > > pdts That’s what I’m asking. What do you call people not from America? You may put down your sabre - I will pick up my axe. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/108 "2010-05-15T02:48:19Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > and we have 50 states. [But not everybody knows that.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwMQ0u7IPpA) ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/109 "2010-05-15T02:50:24Z")
> [@arnesw](#): > > That’s what I’m asking. What do you call people not from America? > > You may put down your sabre - I will pick up my axe. I would call them … Canadian or Mexican or Venezuelan or … Or I’d say ‘North American’ or ‘South American’ Or I’d say ‘person from the Americas’ What’s the problem? pdts ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/110 "2010-05-15T03:52:17Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > [But not everybody knows that.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwMQ0u7IPpA) 57 states and he wasn’t born in any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Archeonomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Archeonomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archeonomist)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/111 "2010-05-15T03:53:28Z")
not really a problem just asking ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/112 "2010-05-15T03:55:17Z")
> [@arnesw](#): > > not > > really > > a problem > > just asking comma splice ---
**Author:** ![Archeonomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Archeonomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archeonomist)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/113 "2010-05-15T04:01:07Z")
I give up ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/114 "2010-05-15T04:04:56Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > Canada’s last province was added in 1949. The last territory was added in 1999. Aaaargh! TERRITORY. I meant to say TERRITORY. My son was in a geography bee about 5 years ago. I was quizzing him to prepare, and the question came up, “how many territories does Canada have?” He said three. I said, no, it’s two. We went back and forth for a few minutes until he showed me a current map. Dang! You guys snuck that one in on me. Nunavut? Really? I knew the 10 provinces, though. My dad was Canadian. I _had_ to know that one. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/115 "2010-05-15T06:54:55Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > Are you intending to disagree with me, or with the poster I quoted? > > pdts Pretty much extending your point. Sabres aren’t pointed, are they? Damn my lack of knowledge of swords! ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/116 "2010-05-15T12:19:57Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Yet another person who “isn’t good at maths.” > > Bit of a tangent: since when did it start being OK to say, “I don’t like math,” as an excuse for willfully forgetting math? > > I hate math yet I can do it. It depends. I’m terrible at math because I have a mild form of numerical dyslexia. On any given day, most people do lots of basic math in their head though. What math is important to know? Arithmetic, basic algebra, and basic geometry. By basic I mean really, really, easy stuff. Everything else is either only utilized by a technical field, or theoretical. With the above skills, you can solve pretty much any problem that comes your way. Even so, it’s hardly necessary to know any of that by rote any either. A calculator can give the correct answer every time. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/117 "2010-05-15T14:26:17Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:86, topic:539375”] Although, to be fair, your last province was added pretty darned recently (1999, if I recall). When I took first-year physics in college, we had to turn in our scratch paper along with the tests (nothing but the test paper, the scratch paper, and our pencils was allowed on the desk). We had a test that involved figuring out the volume of a sphere. I couldn’t remember the formula, but I was taking calculus at the same time, so it was easy to derive. The prof marked my answer wrong _because I hadn’t memorized the formula_. I pointed out that the ability to derive the formula was a much more valuable skill to retain later in life, but he said that’s not what he was testing for. Grrrr. [/QUOTE] I had a situation like this in chemistry 102. The prof marked me wrong, because I didn’t use the formula he did. He didn’t even look at my answer to see if it was correct. After I asked him about it, and then showed him that my formula was just an algebraic transformation of his, he looked at the answer I got, saw it was right, and gave me credit. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/118 "2010-05-15T14:43:34Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > Can’t find a cite, but I seem to remember reading that this is a myth. A solid base of factual knowledge (often gained through memorisation) is essential to doing any creative work in a field. Sure. The artists of Ancient Egypt were, by today’s standards, largely crap. For a particular skill, not having to figure everything out from start is good. But, learning grunt knowledge is really just an issue of time, not intelligence. The far more important aspect of general knowledge is as a tool for learning. The real world is what your intelligence is going to go towards and so having a basic idea of _how_ people, institutions, nations, etc. work is a good thing. But more importantly, it gives you something to develop your intellectual skills against in a way that people find more useful and interesting than dealing entirely in abstractions. A person who is intelligent will almost certainly know a lot of random information since he has the intelligence to recognize its value and because he developed his brain on such data. But that’s only a loose correlation. And more importantly, most of that information will have been encountered in the context of some sort of study, not simply as a list of facts to be memorized. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/119 "2010-05-15T15:18:10Z")
> [@arnesw](#): > > So far it seems that Americans = people that live in the USA. > > Forgive my ignorance here, but what do you call the rest of those living in America? Who are they, exactly? These other people from “America,” this is. There’s only one country whose official name has the word “America” in it, and two with the words “United States” so which do _you_ feel we should incorporate into the name of this country’s people for the sake of clarity? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375/120 "2010-05-15T15:27:00Z")
> [@arnesw](#): > > That’s what I’m asking. What do you call people not from America? > > You may put down your sabre - I will pick up my axe. _awaits events with air of lofty amusement_ Don’t bring an axe to a, err, sword fight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-average-american-stupid/539375.md?page=7)