# Is the "Betsy Ross" flag racist **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2019, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376 "2019-07-02T01:59:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/161 "2019-07-08T16:13:19Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > oops > > [https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/1147127081421160448](https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/1147127081421160448) > > "Arizona Governor Doug Ducey says, after Nike’s decision to pull “Betsy Ross flag” sneakers that he is pulling incentives for company to have a plant there. Two days later, shows up to 4th of July party with Nikes on his feet! " He probably owned them already. So he should not wear a perfectly good pair of shoes because he doesn’t like something the company did later? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/162 "2019-07-08T17:51:54Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > He probably owned them already. So he should not wear a perfectly good pair of shoes because he doesn’t like something the company did later? Yes? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/163 "2019-07-08T17:55:56Z")
That’s a trick question! The answer depends on whether his principles are principles, or if his principles are “principles”. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/164 "2019-07-08T19:24:51Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > He probably owned them already. So he should not wear a perfectly good pair of shoes because he doesn’t like something the company did later? I thought most republicans burned them when Nike hired Colin in the first place! Who Knew? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/165 "2019-07-08T21:04:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Who the FUCK is suggesting that a […] football player be "brutalized "? **UCBearcats** , in [post #57](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21729620&postcount=57): > [@UCBearcats](#): > > Kaepernick is a rebel rouser who needs to get kicked in the junk by an NFL kicker wearing a size 12 Mike cleat. Considering that his remark was not that far away from your own post #48 and post #78, and has been quoted and mentioned in several subsequent posts, I’m a little surprised that you seem so completely oblivious of it. Do you just not read most of the posts in a thread you’re participating in? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/166 "2019-07-08T21:26:17Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > **UCBearcats** , in [post #57](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21729620&postcount=57): > Considering that his remark was not that far away from your own post #48 and post #78, and has been quoted and mentioned in several subsequent posts, I’m a little surprised that you seem so completely oblivious of it. Do you just not read most of the posts in a thread you’re participating in? My post 78" \*Except Colin K was completely and totally wrong. Ok, sure “some people might be uneasy or hurt by that flag …” but the same could be said of the current American flag, or the British flag or… \* My post 48:_In Germany yes, it is. And on eBay._ I dont see where either of my posts suggested he be “brutalized”. :dubious::rolleyes: And of course, being hit \*during a football game \*is business as usual. I have, myself, during College ball, been kicked by a kicker. I was rushing him. That’s what happens. Havent you played the game? Damn Colin has been dogpiled on a regular basis. That’s not “brutalized”, thats _football._ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/167 "2019-07-08T21:40:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I dont see where either of my posts suggested he be “brutalized”. Nobody has claimed in any way that any of your posts suggested any such thing. What I pointed out, very clearly, was that **UCBearcats** ’s post #57 (which I quoted) advocated the brutalization of Kaepernick. That’s what other posters have been referring to when they talk about the position that “Kaepernick ought to be brutalized”, because it’s the position that **UCBearcats** was clearly advocating. You seem to have misunderstood my remark about your posts #48 and #78 being “not that far away” from his post #57 **in the sequence of posts in this thread** , rather than in resemblance of their content. That’s why I was somewhat surprised that you seemed to have no idea what **UCBearcats** said in that post. > [@DrDeth](#): > > I have, myself, during College ball, been kicked by a kicker. I was rushing him. That’s what happens. […] Damn Colin has been dogpiled on a regular basis. That’s not “brutalized”, thats _football_. :rolleyes: I don’t know whom you think you might be persuading with this pathetically feeble attempt to argue that the statement that Kaepernick _“needs to get kicked in the junk by an NFL kicker wearing a size 12 Mike cleat”_ doesn’t count as suggesting that he be brutalized. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/168 "2019-07-08T21:44:06Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Nobody has claimed in any way that any of your posts suggested any such thing. What I pointed out, very clearly, was that **UCBearcats** ’s post #57 (which I quoted) advocated the brutalization of Kaepernick. > > That’s what other posters have been referring to when they talk about the position that “Kaepernick ought to be brutalized”, because it’s the position that **UCBearcats** was clearly advocating. > > You seem to have misunderstood my remark about your posts #48 and #78 being “not that far away” from his post #57 **in the sequence of posts in this thread** , rather than in resemblance of their content. That’s why I was somewhat surprised that you seemed to have no idea what **UCBearcats** said in that post. > > :rolleyes: I don’t know whom you think you might be persuading with this pathetically feeble attempt to argue that the statement that Kaepernick _“needs to get kicked in the junk by an NFL kicker wearing a size 12 Mike cleat”_ doesn’t count as suggesting that he be brutalized. “Not too far away” was read as “not too far away in meaning” because it doesnt make sense otherwise. And if the wish was the a player be hurt _outside normal gameplay_, then that’s clearly wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/169 "2019-07-08T22:01:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “Not too far away” was read as “not too far away in meaning” because it doesnt make sense otherwise. It makes perfectly good sense in the intended context of “distance in the sequence of posts in this thread”, which is probably why nobody but you seems to have had difficulty understanding it. > [@DrDeth](#): > > And if the wish was the a player be hurt _outside normal gameplay_, then that’s clearly wrong. Congratulations. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/170 "2019-07-09T01:41:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “Not too far away” was read as “not too far away in meaning” because it doesnt make sense otherwise. > > And if the wish was the a player be hurt _outside normal gameplay_, then that’s clearly wrong. The kick to the nuts can occur during a game. I am not advocating for cops to rough him up. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/171 "2019-07-09T08:55:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > His his reputation for being a “rebel rouser” was due to his campaign to promote himself. Yes, that certainly is a key message of the anti-Kaepernick smear campaign. It’s not actually true of Kaepernick himself, who has been consistent in his messaging and who has donated large sums of the money he earns from football and Nike ads to help impoverished black communities and promote social justice. > [@UCBearcats](#): > > The kick to the nuts can occur during a game. I am not advocating for cops to rough him up. Well I guess that’s okay then. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/172 "2019-07-09T09:59:26Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > The kick to the nuts can occur during a game. So you’re advocating NFL players kick spectators in the nuts? Since CK is not in the NFL, and all. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/173 "2019-07-09T12:15:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So you’re advocating NFL players kick spectators in the nuts? Since CK is not in the NFL, and all. No, it can be during a pick-up game. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/174 "2019-07-09T12:30:21Z")
Riiiight… ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/175 "2019-07-09T14:57:25Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/176 "2019-07-09T15:26:31Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > This is not racist. Kaepernick is a rebel rouser who needs to get kicked in the junk by an NFL kicker wearing a size 12 Mike cleat. > [@UCBearcats](#): > > The kick to the nuts can occur during a game. I am not advocating for cops to rough him up. I missed this before. Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/177 "2019-07-09T16:42:38Z")
Kaepernick and NIKE are both entitled to their opinions and what they want to sell. Consumers are also entitled to their opinions. If there is a big enough market for Betsy Ross Flag kicks, then someone else, Adidas, Reebok, Puma, etc, will bring them to the market. I got nothing against the Betsy Ross flag, but I wouldn’t go out and buy shoes just because they were on them. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/178 "2019-07-09T16:45:21Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I missed this before. Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm. > > [/moderating] Sorry ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/179 "2019-07-09T17:47:33Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > But, I think we (US citizens) have a responsibility to un-ring that bell in this instance. I don’t want the founding symbols for my country to become co-opted by racists. I’ll defend your right to burn any fashion of the US flag, but to ban certain versions because certain idiots want to adopt it? Nope. I’m gonna have to find a Betsy Ross flag sticker to display, because I’m not the flag-y type. Were some of the founders racists and slaveowners? Yep. Does that make them the least little bit special in their time? Nope, but I’m overlooking that for their other collective good qualities. I agree with this whole-heartedly. We non-racist Americans need to reclaim the Betsy Ross Flag, and the Don’t Tread on Me snake flag, and every other American symbol the racists try to co-opt. ---
**Author:** ![ElderSign](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eldersign/32/8263_2.png) [@ElderSign](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElderSign)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376/180 "2019-07-10T22:07:17Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Kaepernick and NIKE are both entitled to their opinions and what they want to sell. Consumers are also entitled to their opinions. If there is a big enough market for Betsy Ross Flag kicks, then someone else, Adidas, Reebok, Puma, etc, will bring them to the market. > > I got nothing against the Betsy Ross flag, but I wouldn’t go out and buy shoes just because they were on them. Except the companies who use it will be boycotted and branded as racists thanks to an ex-football player’s influence over social media. Ever try to wear red shoelaces? I did and was called a skinhead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-betsy-ross-flag-racist/836376.md?page=10)