# is the book out of copyright? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 17, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946 "2003-05-17T21:06:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/1 "2003-05-17T21:06:51Z")
i have a book that i want to make copies of and distribute. it was written/published in 1924. can i do it? without paying anybody, that is. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/2 "2003-05-17T21:26:58Z")
From [here](http://io.spaceports.com/~wysardry/web/rights.htm): > [@](#): > > USA copyright protection laws still extend to only 50 years after death, but as the Internet is international, the 70 year rule must be considered. > > USA copyright law is complicated further when the author is a corporate one. The protection then lasts 75 years from the publication date, or 100 years from the creation date, whichever comes sooner. This is for works created on or after January 1, 1978 - which applies to most software. So it depends on if the author is dead or alive, a person or a corporation, and where they are located. I wouldn’t copy yet. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/3 "2003-05-17T21:30:18Z")
but, the second paragraph is for after 1978, correct? btw, the author died in 1953. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/4 "2003-05-17T21:31:40Z")
Well, asuming the author was a person, the copyright will expire at the end of this year. Before then, if you copy, you’ll be in violation, even if it is only a couple of months. (well, 7 I suppose) ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/5 "2003-05-17T21:46:04Z")
well, hopefully, that author died in May! Seriously, thanks, alice! ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/6 "2003-05-17T22:29:14Z")
I’m not a U.S. lawyer, but it looks to me as if alice’s information may be incorrect. At the very least it looks as if we need more details. An overview of copyright duration can be found [here](http://www.authorslawyer.com/c-term.shtml) (I got it from another thread; it seems to be reliable). Also, the comments of RealityChuck in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168470) point to a longer duration. I would _not_ assume without further investigation that the book will indeed fall in the public domain in the near future. A lawyer specialized in IP law may be able to give better info; all I can do is urge caution. ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/7 "2003-05-17T22:57:15Z")
The link I mentioned before was given in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165813) on movie copyright duration. I checked the link provided by **alice\_in\_wonderland**. The author apparently is a British non-lawyer, who apparently is not aware of the recent change of copyright protection duration. See [U.S Code Title 17, Chapter 3, Section 302](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/302.html) (info by Blalron in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145754)). The extension of copyright duration was instituted by the [Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act](http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/s505.pdf) (see [Wikipedia](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension_Act) for references). The Supreme Court recently ruled that the copyright extension does not violate the constitution: Eldred vs Ashcroft, January 15, 2003 ([original text](http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/02pdf/01-618.pdf), also at [Open directory](http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/eldredvreno/)) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/8 "2003-05-18T00:07:25Z")
**handsomeharry** , the short answer is that US books copyrighted in 1924 are still under copyright and will be for another 19 years. As **TTT** correctly indicates, **Alice’s** statements are incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/9 "2003-05-18T03:03:25Z")
Oops. Sorry bout that. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/10 "2003-05-18T03:29:14Z")
my head is spinning…thanks, all! ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/11 "2003-05-18T03:55:56Z")
Wait!! Stop the Presses!!(i amuse me!) i just checked the link given earlier. So, it looks as if the book is printed in 1923 i can get away with it, no? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/12 "2003-05-18T07:58:30Z")
17 USC § 304. **Duration of copyright: Subsisting copyrights** > [@](#): > > (b) Copyrights in Their Renewal Term at the Time of the Effective Date of the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act. —Any copyright still in its renewal term at the time that the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act becomes effective [October 27, 1998] shall have a copyright term of 95 years from the date copyright was originally secured. Let’s assume that the author renewed the 1923 copyright in 1951 as the first 28-year copyright term expired. The author then died in 1953, as you say. Under the pre-1978 copyright law, his copyright would last until 50 years after his death. But under the copyright law that went into effect in 1978, that term was extended to 75 years from first publication. That means the copyright extended until the end of 1998 (1923 + 75 = 1998) (all copyrights expire at the end of the year), by which time the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act of 1998 saved it just in the nick of time from falling into the public domain. So, the book’s copyright will expire 95 years after first publication, which will be at the end of 2018. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/13 "2003-05-18T16:36:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Walloon \* > \*\*Under the pre-1978 copyright law, his copyright would last until 50 years after his death. No. Before 1978, a copyright lasted for 17 years, renewable for another 17. The 1978 law gave life + 50 to any work under copyright, but not to anything that went into PD. Back to the OP, any work copyright prior to 1924 is now PD. The key question in this case is: “Was the copyright renewed?” If it was not renewed, the book is PD. If it was, it’s under protection for death + 70 years (due to Hitler’s\* copyright exension act). 1953 + 70 = 2023. \*Blame Adoph, not Sonny; the extra years were added originally to keep Mein Kampf from becoming public domain. ---
**Author:** ![Jayrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Jayrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayrot)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/14 "2003-05-18T16:46:33Z")
You could also see if it is available from [Project Gutenberg](http://www.ibiblio.org/gutenberg/cgi-bin/sdb/t9.cgi/), which puts public domain works up for download. Let someone else do the research! I’d check it for you, but I dont know the name or author. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/15 "2003-05-18T16:57:06Z")
As a little sidetrack to what **Reailty Chuck** said, the copyright to _Mein Kampf_ is now owned by the Bavarian State government. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/16 "2003-05-18T17:05:37Z")
**Chuck** , I’m really surprised at you. You’re usually a rock in these copyright contretemps and now this. What were you thinking of? Everyone, **Walloon** is right in this. The current copyright law for books published after January 1, 1923 is publication date + 95 years. A 1924 book will go out of copyright in 2019. The date of the author’s death has no bearing on it. (The book in question had to be properly renewed 28 (not 17) years after publication, in 1952. Many books were not and so went into the public domain. The Library of Congress will do a search to check into the public domain status of a work, but charges a fee for this service.) **Chuck** , bookmark [Charlie Petit’s page](http://www.authorslawyer.com/c-term.shtml) on copyright terms. It’s as overcomplicated as only a lawyer can make it, but it has all the relevant info in one handy place. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/17 "2003-05-18T17:24:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\*Before 1978, a copyright lasted for 17 years, renewable for another 17. The 1978 law gave life + 50 to any work under copyright, but not to anything that went into PD. \*\* No. The [U.S. Copyright Act of 1909](http://www.megalaw.com/top/copyright/1909cact.php) extended the term of copyright to 28 years, with an optional renewal of 28 years. The Copyright Act of 1790 had a limited term of 14 years, with a 14-year renewal. An 1831 revision of the copyright law extended the first term to 28 years, with a 14-year renewal. > [@](#): > > **Back to the OP, any work copyright prior to 1924 is now PD.** No. Works originally published in the U.S. before 1923 are in the [public domain](http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm). And this book in question was published in 1923. > [@](#): > > **The key question in this case is: “Was the copyright renewed?” If it was not renewed, the book is PD. If it was, it’s under protection for death + 70 years** No. From [Chapter 17 U.S. Code](http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap3.html#304) (emphasis added): > [@](#): > > **§ 302. Duration of copyright: Works created on or after January 1, 1978** > (a) In General. — Copyright in a work created _on or after January 1, 1978_, subsists from its creation and, except as provided by the following subsections, endures for a term consisting of the life of the author and 70 years after the author’s death. > > **§ 304. Duration of copyright: Subsisting copyrights** > (b) Copyrights in Their Renewal Term at the Time of the Effective Date of the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act. — _Any copyright_ still in its renewal term at the time that the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act becomes effective [October 27, 1998] shall have a copyright term of 95 years from the date copyright was originally secured. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/18 "2003-05-18T18:00:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*_(due to Hitler’s_ copyright exension act). > > 1953 + 70 = 2023. > > \*Blame Adoph [Adolf], not Sonny; the extra years were added originally to keep Mein Kampf from becoming public domain. \*\* According to the majority opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court in _Eldred v. Ashcroft_, the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act of 1998 “harmonizes the baseline United States copyright term with the term adopted by the European Union in 1993. See [Council Directive 93/98/EEC](http://www.law.asu.edu/HomePages/Karjala/OpposingCopyrightExtension/legmats/eudirect.html) of 29 October 1993 Harmonizing the Term of Protection of Copyright and Certain Related Rights. . .” That EU directive gives a full list of reasons for extending copyright terms; none involves Hitler. The main reason: > [@](#): > > Whereas the minimum term of protection laid down by the Berne Convention, namely the life of the author and 50 years after his death, was intended to provide protection for the author and the first two generations of his descendants; whereas the average lifespan in the Community has grown longer, to the point where this term is no longer sufficient to cover two generations. . . ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/19 "2003-05-18T18:18:51Z")
Well, I bet the Sonny Bono Act doesn’t specifically cite the desire to protect [Disney cartoons from coming into the public domain](http://www.alia.org.au/incite/2002/11/free.mickey.html) but that was a major impetus for the U.S. to match the rest of the world’s new terms. It appears that the older EU law was death + 50 or publication + 75, whichever was earlier. That would have meant Mein Kampf would have come into the public domain back in 1995. It is now under copyright until 2015, so the 20-year extension may have been to keep it under wraps. [Wikipedia](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf) has a nice summary of the book’s history. This is the way laws work. People who will benefit will lobby for them. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946/20 "2003-05-19T00:24:07Z")
my head is spinning even more, now! thanks for all of the input, everyone. the book is Christ the Healer by F F Bosworth, and i don’t know if any of the copyrights were renewed or if it is the old ‘preface copyright’ trick that the heirs use. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-book-out-of-copyright/175946.md?page=2)