# Is the C-word allowed outside the Pit? {Answered: not in a misogynistic way or to insult. Not even with a letter changed} **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 11, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325 "2022-02-11T18:13:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/84 "2022-02-12T19:51:09Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But “bright lines only” leads to posters gaming the rules and a lot of other bad outcomes. How so? “Don’t use cunt, however you spell it, outside the Pit.” How do you game that? Much much easier to game a flexible rule. Why do we have a bright line rule about misgendering people so far off the board that nobody even knows their name? Are people constantly rules lawyering that one? > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’d be pretty shocked if someone said that. No, I don’t think I’d take offense Why would you take offence? It’s not directed at anyone, it’s just swearing. And I’ve probably used some variation on that many times. > [@Riemann](#): > > If your mother were close by when hit your thumb with a hammer, would you be equally likely to scream “FUCK” as to scream “C\*\*\*”? Do you think her feelings about you screaming both of those two words (even though directed at nobody in particular) would be the same? Sure I would. My mother has undoubtedly heard me and every one of my siblings use that word. Never bothered her a bit because we use it as a swear word, not as an insult. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > And… I probably would wonder how else the person used that word. Btw, this is the second time in the last few weeks you read something into my post that was not there in ATMB. Please stop implying bad faith in my posts. I meant exactly what I said, and I have said how I use the word several times in this thread. Anything beyond that is all in your head, not mine. In case you haven’t noticed, I think I’m the only poster in this thread that suggested banning the word completely. How exactly does that fit in with your suspicions about how I use the word? > [@Riemann](#): > > [I am having a flashback to a prior thread on this topic. This was the point where … chipped in to insist that words have no objective meaning.] Now you’ve done it. (edited to break the Bloody Mary chant) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/85 "2022-02-12T19:56:20Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > My mother has undoubtedly heard me and every one of my siblings use that word. Never bothered her a bit because we use it as a swear word, not as an insult. How do you reconcile that with your prior comment: > [@mordecaiB](#): > > I would guess 99% of my usage is directed at men Why would that be, if it really carries no more semantic baggage than “fuck”? ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/86 "2022-02-12T19:58:42Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Why would that be, if it really carries no more semantic baggage than “fuck”? Because most of my swearing, including fuck, is around men? Pretty much any swearing I do around women is family or close friends. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/87 "2022-02-12T20:03:28Z")
All I’m getting from your comments is that you use a misogynistic slur as a casual swear word, because you think it’s not a big deal to do so. Not that you are really claiming that in your dialect it is _not_ a misogynistic slur. I mean, I will confess to having done so myself on occasion, in exactly the scenario you describe - something like hitting my hand with a hammer (calling myself a “stupid c\*\*\*”, more a British usage, but I live in the U.S.). But I also know that the first thing I would do (in my garden, say) is to look around to see if anyone was within earshot, and I’d be extremely embarrassed if the lady next door might have heard me. Much more so than if I had said “fuck”. And I’m highly skeptical about your apparent claims that you would not. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/88 "2022-02-12T20:08:39Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Just because in your circle of people it’s bad, doesn’t mean everyone else sees it that way. It’s way beyond my circle of friends, but let’s turn that around: Just because YOUR little circle of friends doesn’t find it offensive doesn’t mean the rest of us don’t. But of course you won’t take MY word for it, so how about that of [Miriam Webster](https://www.learnersdictionary.com/definition/cunt)? > [count] offensive + obscene > > **1** : a woman’s sexual organs > > **2** > **a** US — used as an offensive way to refer to a woman > **b** British — used as an offensive way to refer to a stupid or annoying person > ◊ _Cunt_ is an extremely offensive word in all of its uses and should be avoided. or [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com): > The meanings that refer to a woman and a contemptible person are used with disparaging intent and are perceived as highly insulting and demeaning. There are many words used to refer to people in sexual terms. However, to call a person a cunt, especially a woman, is one of the most hateful and powerful examples of verbal abuse in the English language. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/89 "2022-02-12T20:15:28Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I would however like to have sufficient guidelines to let me know whether it makes sense for me to report uses of this particular word, with or without weird spellings, which I think are out of line. That’s a fair ask, and we’re working on it. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/90 "2022-02-12T20:16:54Z")
Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/91 "2022-02-12T20:22:52Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > And… I probably would wonder how else the person used that word. > > Btw, this is the second time in the last few weeks you read something into my post that was not there in ATMB. Please stop implying bad faith in my posts. I certainly don’t mean to imply that you are lying. But the words that pop out when we are upset are words that we use. Apparently, the most common last word on airplane black boxes recovered from crashes is “shit”, a word that pilots probably use pretty regularly. (Since most of us do.) Not something stronger. So if it’s popping out of your mouth when you hit your thumb with a hammer, i think it’s highly likely you ALSO use that word on other occasions. Which is not inconsistent with your suggestion that it’s not a big deal, and just a regular swear. Something that conflicts with my experience, and those dictionary cites above. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/92 "2022-02-12T20:29:11Z")
Yes, quoting Mark Twain for example, where bowdlerizing _that_ word is censorship, imho. Sure, there are times when the c word could be acceptable as a swearword, like when you drop a anvil on your toe. But we are not talking about that. It was being used in a misogynistic way about a woman. Same, but to a lesser extent “bitch”- fine when used talking about a female dog, can be Okay when used in “sonofabitch” as a expletive, might be okay when used in the term “resting bitch face” \*although that can be problematic, but not okay when used to call a woman that. C-word should not be used against a female. Bitch also should not. "Percy"in _Vox Machina_ is proud of his excellent “resting bitch face”. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/93 "2022-02-12T20:29:24Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > All I’m getting from your comments is that you use a misogynistic slur as a casual swear word, because you think it’s not a big deal to do so. Not that you are really claiming that in your dialect it is _not_ a misogynistic slur. Right. I know it can be and is used as a misogynistic slur. It so happens in my monkey sphere we don’t use it that way. That doesn’t mean I will use it at a wedding or on a trip to the grocery store. > [@Riemann](#): > > calling myself a “stupid c\*\*\*”, In my case I use dumb instead of stupid. As a matter of fact, this was used so much amongst friends and family for so long that we just say DC now instead. > [@Riemann](#): > > But I also know that the first thing I would do (in my garden, say) is to look around to see if anyone was within earshot, If I smashed my hand with a hammer, the very last thing I’m going to do is look around to check if neighbors are in earshot. I would be swearing, jumping up and down, shaking my hand, sucking my thumb long before I looked for neighbors. Good on you for not having a pain reflex tho. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > So if it’s popping out of your mouth when you hit your thumb with a hammer, i think it’s highly likely you ALSO use that word on other occasions. Of course I use it on other occasions, I’ve already said so. What I don’t use it for, and what you were implying, is to demean women. If you don’t understand my position on something, just ask instead of thinking the worst thing you could. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/94 "2022-02-12T20:33:25Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > So if it’s popping out of your mouth when you hit your thumb with a hammer, i think it’s highly likely you ALSO use that word on other occasions. You’d be wrong about that. The words that are most cathartic to us when we are injured or stressed are the words that we find personally taboo and tend to never use. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/95 "2022-02-12T20:34:52Z")
I think you misunderstand my position. Even if you aren’t using it to demean women, i think it’s offensive to use. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/96 "2022-02-12T20:37:02Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > It so happens in my monkey sphere we don’t use it that way. But you appreciate that this does not change the word’s objective meaning in your dialect, right? Unless your idiosyncratic usage becomes widely accepted consensus usage in your dialect, the word still objectively means what it means to everyone else. If your female neighbor overhears you, she is likely to develop a different impression of you than if you screamed “fuck”. Contra Max\_S’s misunderstanding of descriptive linguistics, we do not get to pick our own arbitrary meanings for words. You cannot magically strip away the misogynistic semantic baggage of the word by saying “but _I_ don’t use it that way”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/97 "2022-02-12T20:40:57Z")
Have you ever, upon hitting your thumb with a hammer, exclaimed “Frell!”, or “Frak!”, or “Smeg!”, or “Krutz!”, or “Belgium!”? Probably not, because those are all words that you just plain don’t use at all. When you hammer your thumb, you’re not stopping to think about what to say: You’re saying something that’s near the tip of your tongue already, because you don’t have time to dig deeper. I’m not in the habit of using any of those words, and as a result, I don’t use them when I hammer my thumb, either (I usually end up with “Ow!”, or something even less coherent). ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/98 "2022-02-12T20:46:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > When you hammer your thumb, you’re not stopping to think about what to say: You’re saying something that’s near the tip of your tongue already, because you don’t have time to dig deeper. You’d be wrong about that, as well. We self-censor all the time, even when injured or stressed. We still know where we are and who’s around us. Most people say something like Ow! at first. It’s only a fraction later that they let loose with the colorful speech. According to my girlfriend, I tend to self-censor the wrong word. Oh, I broke my fucking… then really quietly …hand! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/99 "2022-02-12T20:51:13Z")
> [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > Most people say something like Ow! at first. It’s only a fraction later that they let loose with the colorful speech. Not that I’ve ever seen/heard. Where did you get this information? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/100 "2022-02-12T20:52:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not that I’ve ever seen/heard. Where did you get this information? We’re moving inexorably toward setting up an experiment where we all agree to meet on neutral territory with a hammer. Or maybe we can just pay 100 psychology undergrads $5 each, isn’t that the usual way? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/101 "2022-02-12T20:53:58Z")
We can go barefoot and blindfolded through an obstacle course of hard wooden furniture, if you prefer. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/102 "2022-02-12T21:03:45Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > But you appreciate that this does not change the word’s objective meaning in your dialect, right? Of course, but I don’t use it outside of my circle. I wouldn’t walk up to someone on the street and say “What’s the time cunt?” but I also wouldn’t say "What’s the time, fucker? That’s why I said my thing about the audience earlier. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think you misunderstand my position. Even if you aren’t using it to demean women, i think it’s offensive to use. I understand your position just fine. The problem seems to be that you don’t understand mine no matter how many times I post it. There is no reason for you to guess how I use the word, I have already told you. Digs about how you think I _really_ use the word are uncalled for. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2022, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325/103 "2022-02-12T21:05:23Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > We can go barefoot and blindfolded through an obstacle course of hard wooden furniture, if you prefer. What if the floor is made of lava? > [@Riemann](#): > > We’re moving inexorably toward setting up an experiment where we all agree to meet on neutral territory with a hammer. Or maybe we can just pay 100 psychology undergrads $5 each, isn’t that the usual way? We need a grant first. Who’s good at the paperwork? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-c-word-allowed-outside-the-pit-answered-not-in-a-misogynistic-way-or-to-insult-not-even-with-a-letter-changed/959325.md?page=6)