# Is the Catholic Church smoking crack?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 11, 2002, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382 "2002-08-11T07:55:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/21 "2002-08-12T02:16:57Z")
(In the interests of full disclosure, I should say I went as a priest for halloween… midway through the evening I found myself at Sky with a Mountie kneeling in front of me “confessing his sins”…) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/22 "2002-08-12T02:25:05Z")
Well, Bevilacqua’s an ass, no doubt about it. I’ll never forget how he was Bishop of Pittsburgh and came to our parish. He refused to allow women parishnors participate in the ritual footwashing on Holy Thursday-despite the fact that they had always done so. My teacher, Sr. Frances showed him up though-when none of the boys could remember what his name meant, he finally called on me, and I told him (drink water). HA HA!!! Sexist prick. Anyhoo, as to your question, Phil, no, excommunication is not forever, [Cecil](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_242.html) will tell you. ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/23 "2002-08-12T03:05:20Z")
Guin - if all can do to refute a point (that the RCC’s record on dealing with abusive priests is abysmal) is call the person making the point an ‘assbag’, might I suggest you fuck off? ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/24 "2002-08-12T04:29:25Z")
She may be imprecise on the details, but I’m in agreement with the overall thrust of **WVWoman** ’s OP. [sub][sup]Did I say that? ::pinches self:: [/sup][/sub] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/25 "2002-08-12T04:33:18Z")
> [@](#): > > I was wrong to say that they are firing the gay priests, but they’re definitely not happy about even having celibate ones. With this construction I agree. I also find the current witchhunt to seek out the “problems” in the seminaries misplaced when well over half the pedophiles (that I have anecdotally tallied) are old enough to have been ordained back in the days of good doctinal purity that so many of these clowns want to embrace. The week after the bishops’ conference the _Michigan Catholic_ interviewed the bishops returning to Detroit. I know a few of them and I found it interesting that the ones that I would rate as twits nattered on about how “We have done the right thing” (as if they had put _that_ problem behind them) while the ones I would rate as serious each talked about the difficulties of dealing both with the past and the future. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/26 "2002-08-12T04:35:54Z")
No, I just get the feeling you’re enjoying this whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/27 "2002-08-12T07:31:40Z")
As much as VW\_Woman is hated here, she has a very good point. The Catholic Church seems to be excluding women in favor of child molesters, when just about anybody else would think otherwise. In other words, they hold women in much less regard as being spiritual leaders of their parishes, their churches than child molesters. Being that she is a woman, I would not blame her for being repugnant about such a view. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/28 "2002-08-12T09:55:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capacitor \* > \*\*As much as VW\_Woman is hated here, she has a very good point. The Catholic Church seems to be excluding women in favor of child molesters, when just about anybody else would think otherwise. In other words, they hold women in much less regard as being spiritual leaders of their parishes, their churches than child molesters. Being that she is a woman, I would not blame her for being repugnant about such a view. \*\* God, doesn’t anyone around here read or think? _The Catholic Church per definition excludes women from becoming priests._ This is not new, it has been the same way for hundreds of years. The recent scandals involving pedophile priests are revolting, and so are some of the ways the RCC is trying to resolve them. **But they are separate issues, and unrelated to the “Priests have to be male” rule.** How difficult is that? I’m a lapsed Catholic at best, and I think there’s a lot wrong with the RCC. Personally, I think the restrictions on priests having to be male and celibate will be the absolute end of the RCC in a few centuries, if they keep it up. If it were up to me, women **would** be allowed to become priests in the RCC. I’m annoyed with the archaic rules, and outraged at the scandals. Still, that doesn’t mean I start mixing facts with wishes like some people here. The comparison is **invalid** : the RCC is _not_ willingly choosing pedophiles over women. Anyone who claims they do, is looking to offend. That, or they’re a complete idiot with no grasp for logic and no knowledge of the history of the RCC. ---
**Author:** ![WV\_Woman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e95f7d/32.png) [@WV\_Woman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WV_Woman)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/29 "2002-08-12T11:13:34Z")
**As much as VW\_Woman** It’s WV, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/30 "2002-08-12T12:45:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\* > > Actually, it does matter. You see, she posted something rude in the thread title, and then showed an utter lack of knowledge about the subject in the OP. As far as I’m concerned she had no business doing so. \*\* Right, but that’s her modus operundi. When called on this she will just stick her fingers in her ears and shout “LA LA LA LA CAN’T HEAR YOU”. There have been some wonderful Pittings of her based on this conduct. Catholic’s do not allow women as priests-- never have. Fine, I do not agree, but that is their right. As far as tying that issue to the pedophila issue- that is pathetic and offensive. What the Church did was wrong, but what they did against those individuals who violated the rules is their right. WV\_Woman your bias is showing, yet again. FWIW, IMHO: any convicted pedophile priest should be fired, excommunicated, and jailed. ---
**Author:** ![bifar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bifar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bifar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/31 "2002-08-12T13:24:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Right, but that’s her modus operundi. When called on this she will just stick her fingers in her ears and shout “LA LA LA LA CAN’T HEAR YOU”. There have been some wonderful Pittings of her based on this conduct. > > \ > > WV\_Woman your bias is showing, yet again. Oh for fuck’s sake. Give the poor woman a break. Plenty of posters stick with their own point of view. That’s why it’s such fun here. And ALL posters are biased. It would be a poor state of affairs if everyone thought and posted the same. This is the Pit, so feel free to disagree, but in my (no doubt biased) opinion WV\_Woman stated her views clearly in the OP, offered cites when asked and has done nothing objectionable in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/32 "2002-08-12T14:06:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bifar \* > \*\* …and has done nothing objectionable in this thread. \*\* Well except for the “minor” detail of getting her facts wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/33 "2002-08-12T14:26:42Z")
And using false analogies. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/34 "2002-08-12T14:34:43Z")
To add to Coldies’ and beagledave posts: 1. The job is fighting ignorance, not encouraging it. 2. Her post was offensive and incorrect, as usual. 3. She has a long, long history of this behavior. 4. She has shown no willingness to listen, even when presented with mounds of well cited evidence. 5. She has been Pitted repeated for these behaviors, together with some wonderful quotes. Try a search for WV-Woman in the Pit for the last 6 months for details. So, thanks for playing and your delightfully pointless use of profanity, but your wrong on all counts. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/35 "2002-08-12T14:50:36Z")
Actually, three months will do. Yeah, I know. It _feels_ longer. ---
**Author:** ![bifar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bifar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bifar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/36 "2002-08-12T15:19:28Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. She has been Pitted repeated for these behaviors, together with some wonderful quotes. Try a search for WV-Woman in the Pit for the last 6 months for details. Yes I know WV\_Woman has been pitted, and I know she has demonstrated some of the nastier side of fundieism and I know she is anti-choice, for example, which I don’t agree with. However, I don’t think she’s shown enough of this IN THIS THREAD to be berated so absolutely and completely. Lots of people post stuff that in the Pit that is shite, or biased, or unfounded, and they get flamed. But they aren’t told that they are universally hated. My that’s harsh. I dunno. Maybe this is a personal thing for me. As a long-term lurker I have seen lots of posters being picked on, and practically all of them deserved it. (Yeah, and no doubt I deserve it too.) But sometimes Dopers fall on them like a pack of ravenous wolves, and things like that make baby Jesus cry. > [@](#): > > So, thanks for playing and your delightfully pointless use of profanity, but your wrong on all counts. Thanks too, elf6c….er…. you fucker. \ ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/37 "2002-08-12T15:21:36Z")
Agreed the OP is a train wreck. An adult having sexual contact with a minor is a felony crime. (Florida Statutes, Title XLVI, Chapter 800.04) Under age 16 qualifies in Florida. Human beings accused of a felony should be investigated by a competent governmental organization (Police), and tried by a competent judicial body (State Court System), and if found guilty, punished according to sentencing guidelines established for such offenses. They should not be allowed to remain outside the jurisdiction of the nation and state in which the offense occurred, unless some issue of extradition from another goverment is the case. Priests should go to court and be tried, just like Boy Scout leaders would be. To think this issue is recent is laughable, and the “higher authority” an “errant” priest is assigned to may be another one who hasn’t been caught yet. Do not reassign them away from people. Assign them to prison, and label them as sex offenders when they get out, just like your average Joe. The seminary diploma should not be a “Get Out of Jail Free” card. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/38 "2002-08-12T17:45:25Z")
**Bifar** –people don’t attack **WV\_Woman** or her beliefs simply because they disagree with them. I think you’ll find that people are more annoyed by her drive-by style of posting, which she once again did in this thread. Do a search, and you’ll see she rarely returns to clarify or defend her arguments. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/39 "2002-08-12T19:07:50Z")
> [@](#): > > ## \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* \*\*quote: > > ## Spokeswoman Susan Gibbs said the Washington Archdiocese asks applicants detailed questions about their sexual orientation and past sexual activity as well as their commitment to the church’s teachings on sexuality. > > \*\* I know that this article was referring to gay priests in particular, but any time someone is looking into the religious life (as a priest, brother or sister), there is in-depth discernment of issues around physical and mental health, maturity, your knowledge of yourself, etc. Given the kind of lifestyle to be undertaken, issues of sexuality will be explored, regardless of orientation. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2002, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382/40 "2002-08-12T19:27:02Z")
As much as I hate to say it… I agree with WV\_Woman. _wince_ Look, I know it’s the rule that women can’t be Catholic priests, and I’m not Catholic, but that’s not going to stop me from saying that it’s a stupid rule and that it’s shameful that they’d rather have pedophiles than women as priests. It would be the same thing if they forbade black people from being priests or if they didn’t allow people with blemishes or mental illness to join their church. I know it’s their tradition, and I don’t really care. It’s dumb, and while they have every right to do it, I’m not going to say that it’s OK. It’s backward, medieval, and wrong to exclude people from the priesthood because the X sperm happened to be faster. Is it inflammatory to tie these issues together? Yes, it is. However, I don’t think it’s necessarily unfair. The Catholic Church is circling the wagons to protect themselves, and I don’t think the things that they are protecting – pedophiles and outmoded prejudices – are worth defending. That’s their prerogative, but I don’t feel that respecting that they have a right to do so means that we must accept it without speaking up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-catholic-church-smoking-crack/123382.md?page=3)