# Is the colloquial parity of "Ladies" and "Men" just an American thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 29, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-colloquial-parity-of-ladies-and-men-just-an-american-thing/296843 "2005-03-29T22:41:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-colloquial-parity-of-ladies-and-men-just-an-american-thing/296843/1 "2005-03-29T22:41:56Z")
We’ve discussed this before, but I couldn’t find the thread. In discussing the gender names of human adults, technically speaking, the words _woman_ and _women_ should be paired with _man_ and _men_, and the terms _lady_ and _ladies_ should be paired with _gentlemen_ and _gentlemen_. But it’s more typical these days to see “Men” and “Ladies” paired together, as in men’s and ladies restrooms, men’s and ladies’ sportswear, and so on. Is this just an American thing? In other English speaking countries is the more formal definition still in common use? ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-colloquial-parity-of-ladies-and-men-just-an-american-thing/296843/2 "2005-03-29T23:38:11Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > We’ve discussed this before, but I couldn’t find the thread. In discussing the gender names of human adults, technically speaking, the words _woman_ and _women_ should be paired with _man_ and _men_, and the terms _lady_ and _ladies_ should be paired with _gentlemen_ and _gentlemen_. But it’s more typical these days to see “Men” and “Ladies” paired together, as in men’s and ladies restrooms, men’s and ladies’ sportswear, and so on. > > Is this just an American thing? In other English speaking countries is the more formal definition still in common use? Mostly are an abreviation of Gentleman ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-colloquial-parity-of-ladies-and-men-just-an-american-thing/296843/3 "2005-03-30T01:51:28Z")
How can you tell it’s not an abbreviation of ‘firemen’? ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-colloquial-parity-of-ladies-and-men-just-an-american-thing/296843/4 "2005-03-30T02:41:58Z")
I’ve seen both versions used here. A restaurant might have its toilets labelled \*Men’s \* and _Women’s_, or it might use \*Men’s \* and _Ladies’_. Shops use all sorts of variations: _women’s wear_, _ladies’ clothing_, \*gentlemen’s outfitter \* etc. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-colloquial-parity-of-ladies-and-men-just-an-american-thing/296843/5 "2005-03-30T04:00:00Z")
Hmm. Seems to me that many restrooms use “Gentlemen” as well. The “Men/Women” variety seems to be much more common, though. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-colloquial-parity-of-ladies-and-men-just-an-american-thing/296843/6 "2005-03-30T05:53:59Z")
If “Ladies” and “Men” are paired here in the U.S., it’s not common. I usually see “Women” and “Men” on the restroom doors. ---
**Author:** ![MartinL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@MartinL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MartinL)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-colloquial-parity-of-ladies-and-men-just-an-american-thing/296843/7 "2005-03-30T08:12:08Z")
The abbreviation of ‘Gentlemen’ I have seen to pair with ‘Ladies’ is ‘Gents’. Still I agree that ‘Ladies’ and ‘Men’ are paired occasionally, but I have never seen ‘Gentlemen’ and ‘Women’ as a pair. So if the more polite form is used only once, it is always for the ladies. Is this common, or have I just failed to see the other examples? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-colloquial-parity-of-ladies-and-men-just-an-american-thing/296843/8 "2005-03-30T09:07:12Z")
I agree with Walloon that the pairing of _Ladies_ and _Men_ is uncommon in the U.S. Is the term _Gentlewoman_ used outside of Congress? ---
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-colloquial-parity-of-ladies-and-men-just-an-american-thing/296843/9 "2005-03-30T16:28:17Z")
In my experience, you don’t usually find this pairing when referring directly to men and women in general, but rather in derived or qualified forms, hence _Men’s Room/Ladies’ Room_, _young man/young lady_, but not _a Harvard study of 250 men and ladies_, _ladies and men are especially at risk_. It seems like ‘lady’ can been used interchangeably with ‘woman’ in many contexts (and vice versa), but substituting ‘gentleman’ for ‘man’ is usually awkward. ---
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-colloquial-parity-of-ladies-and-men-just-an-american-thing/296843/10 "2005-03-30T16:30:03Z")
that should be _ladies and men are **equally** at risk_. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-colloquial-parity-of-ladies-and-men-just-an-american-thing/296843/11 "2005-03-30T17:38:33Z")
It’s because women get the benefit of the doubt.