# Is the Covid situation substantially different enough today to shift policy? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [August 16, 2022, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727 "2022-08-16T01:50:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/81 "2022-08-24T10:26:27Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I don’t see people living differently than they did pre-COVID at this point, other than it’s common to see masks. For varying definitions of “common”. They are becoming rarer and rarer every time I go anywhere (which is not that often). And I’m in a fairly “blue” area. When we were in Florida a few months back, virtually nobody had masks on. Many offices HAVE opened up, at least part time, but a lot of others are still allowing full-time telework. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/82 "2022-08-25T19:53:02Z")
I found this article to be very apropos for this thread. For all of the well earned opprobrium that the previous administration got, there’s still plenty to be had for the current administration’s pandemic response, as well. > [@](#): > > A tired public is not an argument. In fact, pandemic fatigue is a reason to do _more_ in public health policy—suppressing disease transmission as efficiently as possible to keep morale from fading. The tired-public hypothesis is also an excellent argument for implementing less-obtrusive interventions at the levels of policy and institutions, such as [improving indoor ventilation](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/19/schools-race-improve-indoor-air-quality-coronavirus-cases-climb/) and funding [paid sick leave](https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/abs/10.1377/hlthaff.2022.00098?journalCode=hlthaff)—yet somehow the administration and the CDC are reluctant to connect those dots. > **[Stop Telling Americans That They’re “Tired of Covid”](https://www.thenation.com/article/society/covid-pandemic-cdc-fatigue/)** > > Shifting responsibility for the pandemic onto individuals is bad policy—and risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy of doom. On the more humorous side. > **[Opinion | CDC’s updated guidelines for living with the zombie apocalypse](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/08/16/cdc-updated-guidelines-zombies-satire/)** > > The fighting-zombies phase of the zombie war is over! ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/83 "2022-09-15T01:04:23Z")
Hopefully I’m not beating a dead horse here, but here’s another take on how this ain’t over and we could/should be doing more. > **[400 Americans are dying each day. We cannot accept this reality.](https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/400-americans-are-dying-each-day)** > > We are losing ~400 Americans a day. In the last 7 days, we have lost 2,299 people. During August 2022 alone, we lost 15,284 Americans to COVID-19. This means COVID-19 remains the third leading cause of death in our repertoire of threats. And it’s... ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/84 "2022-09-15T01:32:36Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > Hopefully I’m not beating a dead horse here, but here’s another take on how this ain’t over and we could/should be doing more. > > [400 Americans are dying each day. We cannot accept this reality.](https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/400-americans-are-dying-each-day) The ‘should be doing more’ is getting vaccinated, right? From the graphs it looks like deaths are mostly unvaccinated with a small bump for vaccinated 80+. And this quote: > [@](#): > > It’s abundantly clear the [majority](https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status)of deaths continue to be among the unvaccinated ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/85 "2022-09-15T02:38:03Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Guess where I found the least concern for the pandemic? It wasn’t the big houses. How are you going to force people to care more about Covid? Yeah, it seems like it hits the poor unduly, but around here at least, the local governments did nearly everything they could short of mandating vaccinations. Both free vaccination sites were in the poorest parts of town, vaccines were free, they had all sorts of weird hours to accommodate shift workers, gave away fairly high dollar gift cards for getting vaccinated ($50 to Wal Mart IIRC from what my kids each got), and made it drive-through, etc… They could have moved a little faster, but in all they made it VERY easy for the poor and people of color in my area to get vaccinated and tested. Yet, when you read the county’s statistics, it’s white people from the more wealthy areas that had the highest vaccination rates- especially the older age groups. Anecdotally speaking it seemed like masking was highest in upper/middle class whites, then black people, with more rednecky whites and hispanics basically ignoring it entirely. At some point, we just have to accept that there’s a big chunk of the population who because of their own choices, will get COVID and suffer whatever consequences that comes with. I guess the good thing at this point is that enough people have been vaccinated, boosted, and/or contracted COVID that the seroprevalence in the population is high enough that it’s not really spreading much anymore. We actually went from red to green in the last month and it’s only about a month after school started, so that either accelerated that process, or didn’t affect it much. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/86 "2022-09-15T03:24:52Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Anecdotally speaking it seemed like masking was highest in upper/middle class whites, then black people, with more rednecky whites and hispanics basically ignoring it entirely. VERY different here. In the city of Chicago and environs, I would say the upper/middle class whites were most mask resistant (especially in ethnically white suburbs), Hispanics were most compliant by far (I live in an 85% Hispanic neighborhood that just got _nailed_ in the first wave), Blacks were largely compliant. When I see masks these days, it tends to be worn by minority groups more often than whites. Or at least by my observation. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/87 "2022-09-15T03:30:26Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > When I see masks these days, it tends to be worn by minority groups more often than whites. Or at least by my observation. Largely the same here, in my bit of suburban Chicago, though I’d also say that masks are still common among older women, regardless of group. (Older men, not nearly so much.) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/88 "2022-09-15T13:01:54Z")
Well, now it’s rare to see anyone at all wearing a mask here, and if it is, it’s almost some middle-aged or older woman (all ethnic groups in fact). Even we quit wearing them; we’ve been vaccinated, boosted, AND had COVID within the last 3 months. It’s not much of a risk of catching it again right now for us. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/89 "2022-09-15T13:31:09Z")
It’s still fairly common here. When I go to my local Target or grocery store, about 10-20% of folks still wear masks. My older kid goes to a private affluent grammar school, and almost nobody wears masks there, but my other daughter is at the local, mostly Hispanic, public grammar school, and around 15% of kids still choose to mask up. I stopped masking when it became optional, about May of last year (before it flip-flopped a time or two), and I was often one of a few people not wearing a mask in my neighborhood, while when I went to the the (predominantly white) southwest suburbs, nobody wore masks (and many didn’t even bother during the restrictions, and several businesses were fined.) I guess it varies greatly by region, because here, my observation on Hispanic mask compliance is that they were the group most masked up, and still are. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/90 "2022-09-15T13:57:08Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Many offices HAVE opened up, at least part time, but a lot of others are still allowing full-time telework. The trend toward telework has receded somewhat from its peak, but in many cases it will become entrenched as the new normal for reasons unrelated to the pandemic (the most obvious one being the widespread perception that commuting in an expensive and useless pain in the ass). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/91 "2022-09-15T15:20:59Z")
It’s seemed to me that since about June or so, mask wearing has been pretty much non-existent in the places I’ve been- Alaska, Pacific NW (Seattle, Portland & surrounding areas), Dallas, and Houston. I felt like quite the outlier for masking up in fact. If I had to guess, it would be close to 1 in 20 people wearing masks nowadays around here. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/92 "2022-09-15T15:26:53Z")
> [@bump](#): > > If I had to guess, it would be close to 1 in 20 people wearing masks nowadays around here. It’s 1 in 100 where I live, probably less. (I don’t think I’ve seen _anyone_ with a mask on in over a week). I’m always a little surprised when I venture over to Seattle and it’s 1 in 20. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/93 "2022-09-15T16:03:56Z")
With Covid being everywhere, I think the old school thinking of superspreader events and that sort of mitigation isn’t all that useful. I believe studies have shown that masking has had decreasing impact over time and with Omicron emerging. There isn’t virgin territory for Covid at this point. Efforts need to be focused on who’s most vulnerable rather than relying on “comfort food” of reintroducing masking or restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![Mesquite-oh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@Mesquite-oh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mesquite-oh)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/94 "2022-09-15T16:09:20Z")
I not only have “Covid precautions and policy fatigue,” I have “worrying about other Americans and their Covid precautions” fatigue. Most of us Americans have easy access to vaccinations and high quality masks. We know how it is spread. My family members are all vaccinated and we have masks ready to go at any time. If you choose not to get vaccinated, if you choose not to wear a mask in potentially risky environments, I would encourage you to be safe, but there is only so much I can allow myself to care about you. I realize that you are the best judge of how much risk you want to take. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/95 "2022-09-15T18:36:26Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > The ‘should be doing more’ is getting vaccinated, right? Certainly that’s the most important thing, but deaths are not the only negative metric we should be addressing in the interest of public health. Widespread transmission will mean multiple infections per year, [even among the vaccinated](https://twitter.com/drclairetaylor/status/1564349210366984195), more sickness, more cumulative damage, and more long covid. Fortunately, the Lancet Commission came out today with a report on the many public health failures of this pandemic and recommendations on what more should be done. > [@](#): > > Countries should maintain a vaccination-plus strategy that combines mass vaccination, availability and affordability of testing, treatment for new infections and long covid (test and treat), complementary public health and social measures (including the wearing of face masks in some contexts), promotion of safe workplaces, and economic and social support for self-isolation. A vaccination-plus strategy with the goal of protecting populations should be implemented on a sustainable basis, rather than as a reactive policy that is abruptly turned on and off.” [https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)01585-9/fulltext](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(22)01585-9/fulltext) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/96 "2022-09-15T18:41:08Z")
I just went to a K-pop concert in San Francisco on Tuesday. Almost everyone wore a mask. The crowd was largely Asians, as you might expect, and I’ve noticed that Asians are far more likely to wear a mask than any other group. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/97 "2022-09-15T18:43:59Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > The crowd was largely Asians, as you might expect, and I’ve noticed that Asians are far more likely to wear a mask than any other group. My observation is that, prior to COVID, if I ever saw someone wearing a mask in public (here in the midwestern U.S.), it was, without fail, someone of Asian descent. My suspicion is that it’s been, for years, a cultural norm to do so in those communities, if you’re either sick, or concerned about getting sick. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/98 "2022-09-15T18:44:32Z")
Actually, good point. Many Asian groups tend to show high usage here, as well. (Much less among South Asians, but East Asians for sure.) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/99 "2022-09-15T18:55:25Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > Certainly that’s the most important thing, but deaths are not the only negative metric we should be addressing in the interest of public health. Widespread transmission will mean multiple infections per year, [even among the vaccinated](https://twitter.com/drclairetaylor/status/1564349210366984195), more sickness, more cumulative damage, and more long covid. What’s the most effective is herd immunity. If enough people out in the community have immunity from vaccinations, boosters and/or actually having COVID, then the spread of the disease is pretty low, especially if the people adjacent to the vulnerable are all immune. Which is the case right now in large swathes of the country, including where my relative lives. But what happens if there’s a new variant brewing somewhere in the world that is similar to BA5 in that it circumvents a lot of the acquired immunity and vaccination? We’re back at the starting line until they adjust the vaccines and distribute them widely and/or enough people contract the disease that it’s no longer spreading wildly or a big deal. That’s basically what Dr. Taylor is talking about in those tweets. I’m guessing she got Delta and then some Omicron variant in that eight week period. I have to figure there’s some piece of the puzzle we’re missing. Other viruses like influenza or other coronaviruses don’t operate like what she’s describing. People don’t typically get the flu more than once a year, nor do they get the same other coronavirus over and over in the same year either. Why should COVID be any different? Is there some immunological or epidemiological information that is missing in Dr. Taylor’s thinking? Or is she absolutely right and we’re all just going to keep on catching COVID repeatedly for the rest of our lives? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727/100 "2022-09-15T22:13:30Z")
> [@bump](#): > > People don’t typically get the flu more than once a year, Not typically, but it [can totally happen](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-you-get-the-flu-twice-in-1-season/#:~:text=Unfortunately%2C%20no.,University%20Medical%20Center%20in%20Nashville). One of the key difference is SARS-CoV-2 is vastly more infectious than known influenza strains. Remember the flu season basically disappeared that first COVID year because the precautions that were only partially protective against COVID virtually wiped out flu circulation. [Although SARS-CoV-2 isn’t notably more mutation prone than many other common viruses, the increased number of hosts multiply the chances of a novel mutation.](https://www.livescience.com/does-covid-have-more-varients-than-other-viruses) The most infectious virus known is the human specific measles virus (MeV) (COVID is trying to unseat it), but by contrast [measles probably can’t meaningfully mutate to more infectious forms](https://discoverysedge.mayo.edu/2021/03/30/researchers-clarify-why-measles-doesnt-evolve-to-escape-immunity/#:~:text=Unlike%20SARS%2DCoV%2D2%2C,usually%20be%20protected%20for%20life). So COVID is a double-whammy. Mutates readily (if not super-speedily) AND is also super-contagious so always generating new hosts to mutate in. It’s not quite the worst of all possible worlds (that would be super-contagious plus also super-lethal and a super-fast mutator), but it’s bad enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-covid-situation-substantially-different-enough-today-to-shift-policy/969727.md?page=6)