# Is the current leader of (your country) a sociopath? When was your last non-sociopath leader? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 6, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028 "2012-11-06T00:55:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/21 "2012-11-06T23:20:51Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > You know who else was a sociopath? Hitler. I can’t believe it took 16 posts for someone to think of that! ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/22 "2012-11-06T23:39:42Z")
I agree that ASPD/sociopathy (I understand they are not identical, but I don’t know the distinction) is not associated with any degree of success. Most personality disorders are not, at least long term. Narcissism maybe, but not in fields that require cooperation. President certainly does, so NPD may be good in small doses but not if they fit every single diagnostic. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/23 "2012-11-07T00:29:37Z")
The book I mentioned makes a very clear distinction between APD and sociopath/psychopathy. I wouldn’t say any of the people I mentioned came close to having APD. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/24 "2012-11-07T01:16:05Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Some sociopaths may reach the pinnacle of politics, but another name for sociopathy is ‘anti-social personality disorder’. Sociopaths may be superficially charming, but they usually can’t maintain the kind of long term reciprocal relationships necessary to rise to the peaks in politics. Sociopaths are notoriously good at manipulating and exploiting people. It seems to me that the most likely way for a sociopath to rise to power in a non-dictatorship would be as the power behind the throne. Pick some guy who _is_ good at the alliance side of politics and manipulate him. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/25 "2012-11-07T02:52:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Sociopaths are notoriously good at manipulating and exploiting people. It seems to me that the most likely way for a sociopath to rise to power in a non-dictatorship would be as the power behind the throne. Pick some guy who _is_ good at the alliance side of politics and manipulate him. Dick Cheney. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/26 "2012-11-07T08:35:45Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Listing 3 serial killers who were sociopaths doesn’t mean a sociopath must necessarily be a serial killer. > > Plenty of people are able to deliberately lie without any reservation, under any circumstance. Plenty of people casually disregard the people around them, and are psychologically incapable of understanding empathy. > > At least a few of these people probably made it into the government. My point is, sociopaths are usually really fucked up individuals. Not just your average politician. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/27 "2012-11-07T11:36:01Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Dick Cheney. _That_ I’d almost believe. Also: Peter Mandelson. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/28 "2012-11-07T13:50:38Z")
I don’t think you can characterize someone as sociopathic purely based on behavior. Its how we internalize our behaviour I believe is what determines we are sociapathic or not. I see a sociopath as someone who will do anything to achieve their objectives but are sane enough to control their behavior because of consequences. I do believe that many presidents have borderline personality traits which can appear very similar to sociopaths in many cases. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/29 "2012-11-07T15:31:05Z")
From what I read from a review the book the OP is referencing states that psychopathology has a series of distinctive traits and other people who have those traits can be said to have a degree of psychopathology in them. Two of those traits are self confidence and the ability to get people to do things for you. All succesful politicians have those traits. The difference between a real psychopath and everyone else is the ability to feel remorse or real empathy. The inability to feel empathy would be crippling to a politician since they have to constanstly consider how people are going to react to things they do and say. Given the criteria, Johnson is the closest thing American has had to a psychopath in the White House, he combined Nixon’s feeling of being above the law with JFK’s and Clinton ability to treat people as objects to use. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/30 "2012-11-07T15:39:16Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The difference between a real psychopath and everyone else is the ability to feel remorse or real empathy. The inability to feel empathy would be crippling to a politician since they have to constanstly consider how people are going to react to things they do and say. The point is there’s two types of empathy, broadly speaking the kind you describe here which psychopaths are actually better at, and the other kind where instead of intellectually understanding how people will react, feeling it at an emotional level, which psychopaths don’t have at all. Understanding how people will react while not being bothered emotionally about their pain is a great attribute for a politician. And an attribute that is strongly linked to psycopathy. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/31 "2012-11-07T17:25:20Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > Understanding how people will react while not being bothered emotionally about their pain is a great attribute for a politician. And an attribute that is strongly linked to psycopathy. There’s a difference between “not being bothered” and “setting aside individual cases for overall good”. You are using a definition of psychopath that no one would agree with. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/32 "2012-11-07T17:53:45Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The difference between a real psychopath and everyone else is the ability to feel remorse or real empathy. The inability to feel empathy would be crippling to a politician since they have to constanstly consider how people are going to react to things they do and say. But you don’t need to feel empathy for that. There are people I can’t empathize with at all, but I can predict how are they going to react by using logical analysis. It’s a skill I don’t like using because the person I know who was best at it was my Gramps from Hell. He cared for maybe a dozen people ever, but the amount of people crying in his funeral was in the hundreds. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/33 "2012-11-07T18:15:12Z")
Bush II is a sociopath and so is Romney. Torture of animals and general lack of empathy leads me to that. Bush blew up frogs with firecrackers, Romney the bit with the dog. Also with Romney, destroying all those pensions and shipping the jobs to China. Also with Romney, the cheating to win family sports events. Nixon, no. He showed plenty of empathy for those less fortunate. He was a weird crook and a war criminal, and was a deeply disturbed man, but he did seem to have some self awareness that it was really wrong. Obama? Hardly. Clinton? A cheating horn dog, but not a sociopath. Can’t speak to UK leaders. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/34 "2012-11-07T18:18:14Z")
What I’ll give the OP - Obama can play it cool under stress. He doesn’t flinch. He has that\* in common\* with sociopaths (and good poker players), but it doesn’t make him one. This is a political targets thread, and this is going to sound partisan, but I think Newt Gingrich \*might \*be. I don’t have hard evidence, but if _ **Conservatives Without Conscience** _ is to be believed, other humans are just tools to him. He doesn’t value them as humans at all. ---
**Author:** ![Snupzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@Snupzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snupzilla)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/35 "2012-11-09T02:06:46Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Bush II is a sociopath and so is Romney. Torture of animals and general lack of empathy leads me to that. Bush blew up frogs with firecrackers, Romney the bit with the dog. Also with Romney, destroying all those pensions and shipping the jobs to China. Also with Romney, the cheating to win family sports events. :dubious: If trying to blow up a frog with a fire cracker makes you a sociopath, half of all the 5th grade boys in the US are sociopaths. Romney’s dog travel solution was a little weird, but its not even close to psychotic torture. Seriously, I don’t think any of our presidents have been sociopaths. Some of them, however, were dicks. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/36 "2012-11-09T20:37:23Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Also, I don’t think Romney is. He just has a somewhat reserved personality. Romney pinged my sociopath suspicions many times during the election, but I’m sure that’s just due to presentation of both sides in campaign mode. The dog-on-car story, his extreme lack of solid positions, his glassy grin, the passionless affection vibe I got from Ann, the youthful bullying, and the corporate raider gig…all kinda gels with psychopathy. But, of course, it also gels fine with “jerk.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/37 "2012-11-10T07:39:31Z")
> [@Snupzilla](#): > > :dubious: If trying to blow up a frog with a fire cracker makes you a sociopath, half of all the 5th grade boys in the US are sociopaths. Romney’s dog travel solution was a little weird, but its not even close to psychotic torture. > > Seriously, I don’t think any of our presidents have been sociopaths. Some of them, however, were dicks. Yeah, no. I don’t know where you people grow up that you think this sort of thing is common, but it really isn’t. It may not prove sociopathy, as it may just means a disregard for animal life at the time in question, but it definitely is not that common. The one thing that made me think that Romney might be a sociopath is how he treated that one kid, and the fact that he doesn’t feel sorry about it. Now, maybe he just was spinning it that way because he thought he had to. But if he really didn’t see anything wrong with that, I would lean towards sociopathy. Also, Simple Linctus: your book is at best out of touch with what most people mean when they call someone a sociopath. Sociopathy, to most people, is a mental disorder. Furthermore, I’m not going to go read a book just to answer a poll question. How does this book define sociopaths? Then maybe I can answer your question on whether I think the leaders of the U.S. fit that definition. Because it doesn’t fit the normal definition. Heck, I don’t even see any indication that the last few presidents have had anything but the best of intentions for other people. Sociopaths don’t care about other people. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/38 "2012-11-10T07:50:44Z")
I’m 35. I’m fairly convinced that none of the men we’ve had as president, or even as presidential candidates, during my life have been sociopaths. Several have been dicks as Snupzilla said, but that’s a different story. Sociopathic leaders do things like encourage depraved medical experimentation on prisoners of war or wage genocides on their own people/neighboring people. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/39 "2012-11-10T12:57:48Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I don’t know where you people grow up that you think this sort of thing is common, but it really isn’t. Eastern MA, 1970’s, pretty much universal among the kids in our neighborhood. We also sent some up in model rockets with interesting results. No sociopaths in our group that I know of, but we have a couple of accountants. ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2012, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028/40 "2012-11-11T08:31:28Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I agree with you about GWB. But he was just a puppet front man for Cheney, was I’m sure was certainly a sociopath of major magnitude. Could not possibly agree more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-current-leader-of-your-country-a-sociopath-when-was-your-last-non-sociopath-leader/640028.md?page=3)