# Is the Darwin Fish an atheist badge? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 17, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857 "2011-06-17T16:44:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/1 "2011-06-17T16:44:44Z")
Because it seems so to me. And I’m struck by the difference in numbers between Darwin Fish and out-and-out atheist bumper stickers. (In fact, I can only recall ever having seen one of the latter – in Cambridge, Mass., naturally.) But maybe my assumption is wrong; maybe there are loads of believing Unitarians out there with Darwin Fish on their cars. So what’s the consensus? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/2 "2011-06-17T16:45:58Z")
I assume it’s an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/3 "2011-06-17T16:47:12Z")
It’s more of a bumper sticker. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anybody actually use it as a badge. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/4 "2011-06-17T16:48:32Z")
It doesn’t have to be an atheist symbol, since there are plenty of Christians who accept evolution, but I think the play on the Jesus fish has made it into one. Of course a Jewish biologist could get one, but they might like the “Gefilte” fish pin better. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/5 "2011-06-17T16:49:22Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I think the play on the Jesus fish has made it into one. That’s my feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/6 "2011-06-17T16:50:02Z")
I don’t assume it’s _necessarily_ atheist, but I would guess the owner is atheist more often than not. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/7 "2011-06-17T17:11:17Z")
The Darwin fish has always kind of bugged me, because it seems like such a non-sequitor. I mean, it started with the basic fish symbol, which has been used in Christianity since the earliest days. It’s supposed to symbolize Jesus specifically or Chrisitianity in general. It’s not an anti-evolution statement; the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and mainline Protestant churches all accept evolution. So why the attempt to mock this symbol by connecting it to Darwinism? It’s a pretty nonsensical retort. That’s why I think that probably most Darwin fish are displayed by athiests who probably think that religous=creationist. ---
**Author:** ![ReticulatingSplines](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@ReticulatingSplines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReticulatingSplines)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/8 "2011-06-17T17:12:45Z")
It seems that way to me. Either the Darwin Fish or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/9 "2011-06-17T17:12:51Z")
We don’ need no steenkin’ badges! ---
**Author:** ![hellpaso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecae2f/32.png) [@hellpaso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellpaso)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/10 "2011-06-17T17:17:23Z")
True story–I had a Darwin fish on my jeep years ago. In Mississippi–some idiot walks up to me with a big smile in the parking lot of the Winn-Dixie, and says “so where you go to church?” There was no irony, this person was truly clueless! ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/11 "2011-06-17T17:30:39Z")
It used to be that the fish symbol was filled with Greek letters spelling out ichthyus, meaning fish, but also a Greek acrostic. The letters could also stand for Jesus Christ, God’s son savior. OK, not a great acrostic, but still interesting. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/12 "2011-06-17T17:42:05Z")
> [@Greg\_Charles](#): > > It used to be that the fish symbol was filled with Greek letters spelling out ichthyus, meaning fish, but also a Greek acrostic. The letters could also stand for Jesus Christ, God’s son savior. OK, not a great acrostic, but still interesting. I always thought it represented the Holy Mackerel. . ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/13 "2011-06-17T18:00:07Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > That’s why I think that probably most Darwin fish are displayed by athiests who probably think that religous=creationist. And the counter-counter symbol, which shows a fish with the word “TRUTH” etched on its side eating a smaller fish which says “DARWIN”, are displayed by religious people who undoubtedly think that Evolution is incompatible with Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/14 "2011-06-17T18:14:45Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > The Darwin fish has always kind of bugged me, because it seems like such a non-sequitor. I mean, it started with the basic fish symbol, which has been used in Christianity since the earliest days. It’s supposed to symbolize Jesus specifically or Chrisitianity in general. It’s not an anti-evolution statement; the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and mainline Protestant churches all accept evolution. > > So why the attempt to mock this symbol by connecting it to Darwinism? It’s a pretty nonsensical retort. > > That’s why I think that probably most Darwin fish are displayed by athiests who probably think that religous=creationist. I can see where you’re coming from, and I’m not disputing anything you’re saying, but IMHO it’s quite obvious that the vast majority of the visible anti-evolution rhetoric in the “Western” world is coming from evangelical Christian sects, so I think the Darwin fish does make some kind of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/15 "2011-06-17T18:17:13Z")
I prefer the FSM myself. [http://evolvefish.com/fish/emblems.html](http://evolvefish.com/fish/emblems.html) \<---- for a whole shiteload of alt.fish emblems, of varying oddity and relevance to religion or christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/16 "2011-06-17T20:09:54Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > So why the attempt to mock this symbol by connecting it to Darwinism? It’s a pretty nonsensical retort. Probably because in the US at least, even if many Christians aren’t creationists, pretty much all the creationists are Christians. > [@](#): > > That’s why I think that probably most Darwin fish are displayed by athiests who probably think that religous=creationist. See above. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/17 "2011-06-17T20:29:07Z")
I’d be afraid to put a Darwin fish on my car. Some religious nut will go berserk. So much for religion and morality. Whatever the fish originally says, it now (usually) says Jesus. But aside from being a sendup of Christianity, it is also a serious statement. What is shows is a fish developing limbs and presumably evolving to live on land. Thus it is a picture of evolution. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/18 "2011-06-17T20:34:41Z")
I had a darwin fish on my old grand am for a while at a conservative college campus and the car was never vandalized. Maybe I dodged a bullet? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/19 "2011-06-17T20:35:24Z")
I actually have a Darwin Fish and FSM symbol on my vehicle. I intend it to signify that I’m an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857/20 "2011-06-17T20:45:41Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I’d be afraid to put a Darwin fish on my car. Some religious nut will go berserk. So much for religion and morality. Wait, what? Your saying that religious people are hypocrites because why they preach religion and morality, in your head they respond to your hypothetical Darwin Fish by vandalism? I’ve heard of people being accused of thought crimes, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone accused of a crime that happened in _someone elses_ thoughts. Anyhoo, as to the OP, I usually see it as an anti-creationist symbol rather then pro-atheism, though obviously there’s a lot of overlap there. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-darwin-fish-an-atheist-badge/585857.md?page=2)