# Is the death of Sebastian Shaw in X-Men: First Class theoretically possible given certain conditions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-books-manga\ **Created:** [December 7, 2021, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609 "2021-12-07T03:08:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/1 "2021-12-07T03:08:01Z")
The climax of X-Men: First Class happens inside the reactor room of a nuclear submarine. With glacial slowness, Magneto pushes a coin into the skull and through the brain of his rival Shaw, and out the other side, killing him. If someone like Magneto, capable of moving metal objects with his mind, existed in real life, would such a feat be possible, or would the entry velocity of the coin be just too darn slow? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/2 "2021-12-07T03:18:22Z")
He isn’t throwing it at that speed-he is _pushing_ it. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/3 "2021-12-07T03:30:06Z")
But the only thing pushing back is the strength of Shaw’s neck muscles - he’s not braced against a wall or anything. Normally, no, you wouldn’t be able to push back so hard just with muscle power so that a coin would actually penetrate your skull. But Shaw is a powerful mutant under the mental control of another powerful mutant, so who knows what’s possible? It’s also interesting that if Charles released Shaw, Magneto couldn’t have killed him, so he’s certainly implicit in the killing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/4 "2021-12-07T03:35:25Z")
I don’t recall the scene-Is the coin actually travelling slowly, or is the event happening in slow motion to show us what is happening? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/5 "2021-12-07T03:46:06Z")
[Here is the scene.](https://youtu.be/KkxjmZ2dp1Y)Magneto is slowly counting to 3, and Charles is screaming continuously, all while the coin is moving. So it’s really just moving slowly. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/6 "2021-12-07T03:53:17Z")
Is there enough iron in the human body for Erik to hold him in place? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/7 "2021-12-07T04:00:59Z")
He’s never directly manipulated anyone like that in any of the X-Men movies. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/8 "2021-12-07T04:03:37Z")
There is a LOT of metal on a sub - I always find this scene interesting that he can focus so singularly on a coin that would generally not be magnetic and have zero affect on all the things that are. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/9 "2021-12-07T04:20:24Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > He’s never directly manipulated anyone like that in any of the X-Men movies He did at least once, but only with someone dosed with extra iron: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LAcs2uROaoI/hqdefault.jpg "Too Much Iron In Your Blood") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAcs2uROaoI&t=31) ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/10 "2021-12-07T04:28:48Z")
That’s kind of the exception that proves the rule. If he was able to manipulate humans and pull iron out of them, he wouldn’t have needed Mystique to inject the guard. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/11 "2021-12-07T04:41:37Z")
He was able to lift the entire guard, though. Maybe with a “normal” amount of iron, he couldn’t lift a whole person but could at least hold them firmly enough to push a coin through their head. Or, maybe the guy had fillings (which Magneto pulls out from a guy in a different scene in _First Class_). Or a wizard did it. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/12 "2021-12-07T05:59:07Z")
(Nevermind, misread post I was responding to.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/13 "2021-12-07T07:56:57Z")
> [@simster](#): > > There is a LOT of metal on a sub - I always find this scene interesting that he can focus so singularly on a coin that would generally not be magnetic and have zero affect on all the things that are. While his name is Magneto, and his powers are based on magnetic fields, he’s canonically been shown to manipulate non-ferro-magnetic metals just fine. Plain lead+brass bullets, for one thing. Diamagnetism and paramagnetism are also magnetic field effects, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/14 "2021-12-07T08:39:19Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > If someone like Magneto, capable of moving metal objects with his mind, existed in real life, would such a feat be possible, or would the entry velocity of the coin be just too darn slow? Cutting/piercing something is about the amount of pressure applied, not how fast it is applied. Push it in at a millimeter a month and it is gonna go in if there is enough pressure. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/15 "2021-12-07T09:13:08Z")
Given the subject matter, invoking Road Runner Physics is probably perfectly reasonable. Certainly violating any of Newton’s Laws of Motion would be a good start, and has precedence. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/16 "2021-12-07T12:49:15Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Cutting/piercing something is about the amount of pressure applied, not how fast it is applied. Push it in at a millimeter a month and it is gonna go in if there is enough pressure. Right, but there’s nothing holding Shaw’s head in place. It seems like a slowly moving coin pressing against his forehead would just push his head backwards, not drill through his skull. So the question is, would a slowly moving coin with arbitrary pressure behind it push through a human skull, or would it just push the whole skull, and head, backwards? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/17 "2021-12-07T14:33:49Z")
Is the coin spinning? I remember it spinning, and if it’s spinning fast enough, maybe that could be the cutting force necessary. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/18 "2021-12-07T14:36:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > While his name is Magneto, and his powers are based on magnetic fields, he’s canonically been shown to manipulate non-ferro-magnetic metals just fine. If there’s one thing reading Marvel Comics has taught me, it’s this: Stan Lee had no idea how magnets work. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/19 "2021-12-07T15:02:30Z")
The video is linked in post 5. It’s rotating, but really slowly - 60 rpm maybe? Way too slow to saw it’s way in. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/20 "2021-12-07T15:25:56Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Right, but there’s nothing holding Shaw’s head in place Isn’t Prof X holding him still? It’s been awhile since I watched it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609.md?page=2)