# Is the death of Sebastian Shaw in X-Men: First Class theoretically possible given certain conditions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-books-manga\ **Created:** [December 7, 2021, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609 "2021-12-07T03:08:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/21 "2021-12-07T15:28:56Z")
Yes, but he’s only got telepathy, doesn’t he? He can only hold him as strongly as Shaw’s muscles are capable of. He was begging Erik not to kill Shaw - if he was using telekinesis to hold Shaw, he could have just moved him out of the way while still holding him paralyzed. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/22 "2021-12-07T15:31:17Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Yes, but he’s only got telepathy, doesn’t he? Yup. Professor X is typically portrayed as being one of the (if not _the_) world’s strongest telepaths, but in most portrayals of the character (including in the movies), he isn’t also a telekineticist (unlike Jean Grey/Phoenix). ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/23 "2021-12-07T15:36:36Z")
The same stupid stunt was pulled in the original X-Men movie, when Magneto shoots at the cops, here: [Mind Over Metal | X-Men (2000) Movie Clip - YouTube](https://youtu.be/oITThnmW0T8?t=123) The bullet is slowly drilling its way into the cop’s forehead, even though there is nothing preventing him from moving out of the way. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/24 "2021-12-07T15:37:07Z")
Right. Of course, Shaw is super-strong-ish (the way his powers work isn’t all that clear), so as you mention upthread, he might be strong enough to hold his head in place while Charles telepathically paralyzes him. But then, it seems like his bones and muscles and other tissues should also be super-strong, and resistant to having a coin push through them. But comic book physiology never makes any sense. Also…couldn’t Charles have just, y’know, let Shaw go? I guess he felt like if he did, Shaw would kill Magneto, so he had to choose between helping Magneto murder Shaw and letting Shaw kill Magneto, but… ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/25 "2021-12-07T15:39:58Z")
I did forget he only had telepathy here. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/26 "2021-12-07T15:42:20Z")
No matter how strong he was, he was just standing in a room. He’d have either been pushed over or pushed back back by the coin. I forget the details, but wasn’t Shaw still trying to set off a nuke or something in Cuba to trigger WWIII? So it was a choice between Shaw and the death of billions, not Shaw or Erik. OK, just watched some of it on Disney+ - Shaw was absorbing power to turn himself into a bomb or something like that, but the idea was the same -trigger an incident that starts a nuclear war. So the question is what they could have done besides kill him - Charles flat out stated he couldn’t hold Shaw for long, and Magneto was clearly outmatched in a power-to-power fight with him, so I don’t see any other options. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/27 "2021-12-07T16:44:47Z")
Well, the coin isn’t just going to make a coin-shaped slot in his head like this is some Bugs Bunny cartoon. The skull would break instead, maybe shatter depending where the point of penetration was. But the force to break the bones is much greater than the force to just bend his neck back until that broke, or knock him over. Might just as well try to pull his heart out with your bare hands. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/28 "2021-12-07T16:57:50Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Might just as well try to pull his heart out with your bare hands. Charles Nelson Reilly can. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/xLnapb-30hA/maxresdefault.jpg ""Weird Al" Yankovic - CNR (Official 4K Video)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLnapb-30hA&t=63) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/29 "2021-12-07T16:58:22Z")
I wonder what the director/animator was thinking, and I wonder if they had a conversation about whether spinning the coin very fast would work better. Maybe the animation of a rapidly spinning coin didn’t look great? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/30 "2021-12-07T17:08:56Z")
They/Magneto should have just vibrated the coin very rapidly, on the principle of ultrasonic welding. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/31 "2021-12-07T17:10:36Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Cutting/piercing something is about the amount of pressure applied, not how fast it is applied. Push it in at a millimeter a month and it is gonna go in if there is enough pressure. Yes, but pressure multiplied by contact area is force. For an unrestrained object, that force causes acceleration of the object’s mass backwards, until it matches velocity with the applied push, at which point the force (and pressure) goes back to zero and the system reaches equilibrium. The only way to pierce an unrestrained object is to either: - push fast enough that the object’s own inertia resists it from accelerating backwards sufficiently to match velocity with the applied push, allowing pressure to spike higher than the material strength properties of the object. (example: gunshot) - push over a very small contact area, allowing pressure to spike locally without applying a whole lot of force to the object overall (example: needle). A slow moving coin meets neither of those criteria. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/32 "2021-12-07T17:16:16Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > push over a very small contact area, allowing pressure to spike locally without applying a whole lot of force to the object overall I would consider the edge of a coin to be a very small contact area with a local spike in pressure. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/33 "2021-12-07T17:36:38Z")
The edge of the coin will cause a higher spike in pressure, but no way near enough to exceed bone/skin material strength. If it did, you’d have no trouble breaking skin from mishandling a quarter. Heck, just try pressing a coin against your hand. The rounded edge of a coin _seems_ like a very tiny contact point in theory, but skin/tissue isn’t a perfectly rigid object - it deforms elastically as more force is applied and spreads out the pressure over a much wider contact patch area. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/34 "2021-12-07T17:53:44Z")
> [@YamatoTwinkie](#): > > The edge of the coin will cause a higher spike in pressure, but no way near enough to exceed bone/skin material strength. It would if you pressed hard enough. A dull knife needs more pressure to cut than a sharp knife, but it still cuts. A round coin is the tip of a very dull knife. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/35 "2021-12-07T18:04:54Z")
He hypnotized the coin into believing that it was spinning faster and was much thinner. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/36 "2021-12-07T18:09:01Z")
That scene bothered me for another reason- Shaw absorbs any kind of energy, including kinetic. A slow push is still kinetic energy, so even just pushing the coin slowly into his head should’ve been nigh-impossible. I figured a better solution would’ve been for Magneto to put it into his mouth and down his throat, and choke him with it. Shaw wouldn’t have been able to absorb that, and even if Xavier had released him he would still die. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/37 "2021-12-07T18:11:30Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > It would if you pressed hard enough. A dull knife needs more pressure to cut than a sharp knife, but it still cuts. A round coin is the tip of a very dull knife. Again, “pressing hard” only works if the object is pressing back. An unrestrained object can’t press back except by inertia. You can slowly cut a piece of chicken using a butter knife if you press hard enough, _as long as there’s a table underneath it, perpendicular to the cut_. Try doing the same thing parallel to the cutting board, and all you are going to do is slowly push the chicken across the table. It doesn’t matter how “hard” you press. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/38 "2021-12-07T18:13:05Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Might just as well try to pull his heart out with your bare hands. Or cut it out with a spoon. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/39 "2021-12-07T18:18:29Z")
Why a spoon? Why not an axe? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/40 "2021-12-07T18:18:49Z")
Because it would hurt more! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609.md?page=3)