# Is the death of Sebastian Shaw in X-Men: First Class theoretically possible given certain conditions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comic-books-manga\ **Created:** [December 7, 2021, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609 "2021-12-07T03:08:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/41 "2021-12-07T18:56:46Z")
Megneto could certainly manipulate the edge of the coin to make it sharper, no? ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/42 "2021-12-07T19:06:34Z")
He could, but there’s no indication that he does. We also see close ups of the coin as it slowly floats throught the air, punches into Shaw’s skull, and then emerges on the other side, and drops to the ground in slow motion, and the edge looks like a normal coin edge. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/43 "2021-12-07T19:16:19Z")
Exactly. The point of the scene was that, since Shaw’s mutant powers rendered him essentially invulnerable to traditional physical attacks, Magneto killed him by using as little kinetic energy as possible. And, when I first saw the film, I didn’t think about the things which have been brought up in this thread, all of which boil down to “serious plot hole if you think about it.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/44 "2021-12-07T19:27:54Z")
If Magneto has positioned a metal plate behind Shaw’s head that would keep it in place while the coin penetrates, but that’s not what’s shown in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/45 "2021-12-07T19:34:18Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Exactly. The point of the scene was that, since Shaw’s mutant powers rendered him essentially invulnerable to traditional physical attacks, Magneto killed him by using as little kinetic energy as possible. So, Shaw’s power works on the same principles as _Dune_’s shields? I don’t think that’s actually established in the movie, but it works well enough as a fanwank. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/46 "2021-12-07T19:47:04Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Shaw’s power works on the same principles as _Dune_ ’s shields? I don’t think that’s actually established in the movie, but it works well enough as a fanwank. My understanding has always been that he can absorb energy (including kinetic energy), and then redirect that energy to augment his own body (making him stronger, tougher, faster, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/47 "2021-12-07T22:49:01Z")
Is his absorption of energy conscious or automatic? If it’s conscious, then Xavier’s mental control could prevent him from using it just as he’s preventing him from moving his muscles. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/48 "2021-12-07T22:53:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Is his absorption of energy conscious or automatic? Unclear, though his entry on the Marvel Wiki says nothing about him having to choose to use it. > [@](#): > > Sebastian has the superhuman ability to absorb kinetic energy and metabolize it to enhance his own physical strength, speed, and stamina. This makes him extremely difficult to defeat in battle, as every blow struck against him only makes him stronger. Unusual tactics are required to defeat him, usually by incapacitating him or by attacking him psionically. Shaw absorbs the energy of any blow he is struck by, not just punches, but also projectiles like bullets, and to a less successful degree, electricity and physically based energy beams. > **[Sebastian Shaw (Earth-616)](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Sebastian_Shaw_(Earth-616)#Powers_and_Abilities)** > > 260 appearance(s) of Sebastian Shaw (Earth-616) 14 appearance(s) in handbook(s) of Sebastian Shaw (Earth-616) 30 minor appearance(s) of Sebastian Shaw (Earth-616) 40 mention(s) of Sebastian Shaw (Earth-616) 6 mention(s) in handbook(s) of Sebastian... ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/49 "2021-12-07T22:56:45Z")
Of COURSE he could move a coin fast or slow, anywhere he wants to. Shoving something metallic slowly through someone’s head would be so basic, it could become Magneto’s signature move. Keeping in mind: > [@MrDibble](#): > > While his name is Magneto, and his powers are based on magnetic fields, he’s canonically been shown to manipulate non-ferro-magnetic metals just fine. Plain lead+brass bullets, for one thing. Diamagnetism and paramagnetism are also magnetic field effects, after all. And, brilliantly: > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > …since Shaw’s mutant powers rendered him essentially invulnerable to traditional physical attacks, Magneto killed him by using as little kinetic energy as possible. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/50 "2021-12-07T23:05:30Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > My understanding has always been that he can absorb energy (including kinetic energy), and then redirect that energy to augment his own body (making him stronger, tougher, faster, etc.) Yes, that’s my understanding as well. But he should still be able to absorb the kinetic energy of a slowly moving coin and redirect it, unless his powers work the same way the shields do in _Dune_ and don’t react to objects moving below a certain speed. > [@Chronos](#): > > Is his absorption of energy conscious or automatic? If it’s conscious, then Xavier’s mental control could prevent him from using it just as he’s preventing him from moving his muscles. Now that you suggest it, it seems to me like they would pretty have to be. Otherwise, he couldn’t see or hear, right? He’d just aborb the incoming light energy and kinetic energy of sound waves. That scene makes a _lot_ more sense if Shaw’s powers require active, conscious control, and Xavier is also stopping him from using them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/51 "2021-12-07T23:05:53Z")
Yes, but how is he not just pushing Shaw over? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/52 "2021-12-07T23:14:24Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > If someone like Magneto, capable of moving metal objects with his mind, existed in real life, would such a feat be possible, or would the entry velocity of the coin be just too darn slow? It doesn’t require momentum, he is exerting force on it the entire time. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/53 "2021-12-07T23:37:28Z")
Yes, we all get that, and it’s been discussed upthread. The issue is, could slowly pushing a coin edge first against someone’s forehead with an arbitrary amount of force driving it forward actually push the coin through the skull, as in the scene, or would it just push the whole head backward without penetrating? It seems to me like it would almost certainly be the latter, and without _something_ bracing Shaw’s head, the coin would never penetrate. Maybe, as suggested upthread, Shaw’s superhumanly strong neck muscles locked into place by Xavier’s telepathy provide enough resistance. But then, to sustain that stress, it seems like his muscles and bones would have to be superhumanly tough, and a coin shouldn’t be able to slice through, or at least not that easily. It’s times like this that I really miss _Mythbusters_. It seems like a question custom made for a pig carcass and a custom-modified hydraulic rig. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/54 "2021-12-07T23:46:51Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > Stan Lee had no idea how magnets work. Fucking magnets - how do they work? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/55 "2021-12-07T23:47:38Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > It seems to me like it would almost certainly be the latter, and without _something_ bracing Shaw’s head, the coin would never penetrate. Maybe, as suggested upthread, Shaw’s superhumanly strong neck muscles locked into place by Xavier’s telepathy provide enough resistance. But then, to sustain that stress, it seems like his muscles and bones would have to be superhumanly tough, and a coin shouldn’t be able to slice through, or at least not that easily. Even then, it should just tip him over backwards. There’s still nothing holding him to the floor other than normal gravity. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/56 "2021-12-07T23:49:41Z")
Sure, other than comic book phyics where super-strength somehow includes super-inertia. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2021, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/57 "2021-12-07T23:59:47Z")
Wouldn’t most WWIi era coins be softer than bone? Discounting steel pennies and such. The coin in that scene certainly looked like a silver thaler or something like. That would bend and squish on or under the skin, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/58 "2021-12-08T00:07:31Z")
It’s apparently a 5 Reichsmark coin, which would have been made of silver. I think you’re right that the coin would deform before it could be pushed through bone, although I suppose Magneto could be using his powers to force it to keep its shape. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/59 "2021-12-08T00:15:25Z")
Y’all are forgetting the Rule of Cool… My questions when I first saw it were: Does Shaw deserve to die? Does he rate a slow, helpless death? Is younger Magneto a badass? And, can Michael Fassbender do enough angst and anger that he could convince me that he needs to kill the bad guy? That’s all I need. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2021, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609/60 "2021-12-08T00:30:04Z")
I don’t think anyone’s “forgetting” that. But the OP asked a specific question about the real-world plausiblity of the scene, and we’re discussing it (along with other tangents, as is our wont around here). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-death-of-sebastian-shaw-in-x-men-first-class-theoretically-possible-given-certain-conditions/955609.md?page=4)