# Is the Democratic party headed in the wrong direction?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 21, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187 "2011-04-21T05:15:35Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Whambulance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whambulance)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/1 "2011-04-21T05:15:35Z")
A little background here. I am a middle-of-the-road Libertarian with some far left as well as far right tendencies so I am by no means bashing Democrats in general.
The reason I am posting this is that it occured to me a couple days ago that much of the left agenda appears to increasingly encourage a lack of personal responsibility.
Stimulus packages, even bigger government, more extensions of healthcare to those that cannot or will not contribute, more entitlement projects, extensions of unemployment compensation, support for more government and union benefits packages & more projects rewarding illegal immigrants and minorities (it is important to note here that my argument isn’t that minorities shouldn’t receive the best care, only that they should not be privileged at the expense of others).
The way I gauge whether or not I endorse a particular agenda is to determine if it encourages personal or individual responsibility and it just seems that recently the left strays farther and farther away from what I think should be a core tenet of any society.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/2 "2011-04-21T05:22:06Z")
The Democrats have no agenda or direction that I can concern. They certainly do not show any impetus towards the kind of imaginary policies that you’re talking about. It’s a pro-corporate, conservative party. The only wrong direction it’s going in is in its perpetual capitulation to the right. If ONLY it had the balls to be progressive.
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### Author:  [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/3 "2011-04-21T05:45:27Z")
I think Republican policies that reward corporations for off shoring jobs is harmful to America. I think the people these policies harm deserve help. Unemployment compensation for those tossed out of work because corporations can evade environmental rules ,industry regulation and get very cheap labor abroad, is the least they deserve in a world that controls them.
Personal responsibility suggests that the person is control of his life and he has responsibility for not having a job anymore. What a ignorant right wing /libertarian philosophy that is. It ignores the realities of the world. How childish would you have to be see the world in such immature poorly thought out Randian vision.
The stimulus package was an attempt to save the economy the Repubs destroyed with their twisted Libertarian beliefs. It created jobs when Greenspan/Libertarian policies destroyed them.
The core tenetv of society should be corporations exist for the benefit of the country. When they harm it, their charters should be revoked.
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### Author:  [@Whambulance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whambulance)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/4 "2011-04-21T05:54:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> The Democrats have no agenda or direction that I can concern. They certainly do not show any impetus towards the kind of imaginary policies that you’re talking about. It’s a pro-corporate, conservative party. The only wrong direction it’s going in is in its perpetual capitulation to the right. If ONLY it had the balls to be progressive.
Maybe forwarding the policies I’ve mentioned isn’t within the actual agenda of the Democratic party itself, but if that’s the case my next supposition would be that there are then far-left influences within the Democratic party that either weren’t there just years ago or have considerably more sway than what I remember.
I would expect an argument from some that the policies I alluded to maybe aren’t as prevalent as I thought, or that my vision has somehow been skewed, but discounting them as imaginary will not make them go away.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/5 "2011-04-21T05:59:43Z")
I’m not aware of any far left influences in the Democratic party. Moderate conservative is about as far left as it gets.
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### Author:  [@Whambulance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whambulance)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/6 "2011-04-21T06:04:24Z")
> [@gonzomax](#):
>
> I think Republican policies that reward corporations for off shoring jobs is harmful to America. I think the people these policies harm deserve help. Unemployment compensation for those tossed out of work because corporations can evade environmental rules ,industry regulation and get very cheap labor abroad, is the least they deserve in a world that controls them.
> Personal responsibility suggests that the person is control of his life and he has responsibility for not having a job anymore. What a ignorant right wing /libertarian philosophy that is. It ignores the realities of the world. How childish would you have to be see the world in such immature poorly thought out Randian vision.
> The stimulus package was an attempt to save the economy the Repubs destroyed with their twisted Libertarian beliefs. It created jobs when Greenspan/Libertarian policies destroyed them.
> The core tenetv of society should be corporations exist for the benefit of the country. When they harm it, their charters should be revoked.
I agree with much of what you say about corporations, but you act as though there are no Democratic run corporations tossing people out of work to evade environmental laws and industry regulation. You can add tax evasion to that list as well.
I would like your perspective though on how “Repubs destroyed the economy with their twisted Libertarian beliefs”?
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### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/7 "2011-04-21T11:30:26Z")
OP, is it better to encourage responsibility or to take responsibility?
If it’s desirable for individuals to be responsible, why not for a government?
And if you fall back on the importance of consent, let me preempt that: Nothing government does is or should be consensual. Government is an authority; if it’s not coercive, you’re doing it wrong.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/8 "2011-04-21T11:54:52Z")
I agree with **Diogenes**. The Democrats have no direction or agenda; nor are they even moderately left wing.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/9 "2011-04-21T14:00:04Z")
> [@Whambulance](#):
>
> The way I gauge whether or not I endorse a particular agenda is to determine if it encourages personal or individual responsibility and it just seems that recently the left strays farther and farther away from what I think should be a core tenet of any society.
The Democrats are heading in the wrong direction in many ways, but this is about the last reason why. Partly because personal responsibility shouldn’t even be in the top ten values in any given society, and partly because neither major party gives a shit about personal responsibility beyond lip service.
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### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/10 "2011-04-21T14:48:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> personal responsibility shouldn’t even be in the top ten values in any given society,
This is interesting. What ten values would you put above it for societal health?
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/11 "2011-04-21T15:20:53Z")
Name any ten at random.
When conservatives talk about “personal responsibility” it’s just code for “I don’t want to pay my taxes,” anyway. Basically, it’s doublespeak for people who want to _avoid_ their social responsibilities.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/12 "2011-04-21T15:52:21Z")
> [@furt](#):
>
> This is interesting. What ten values would you put above it for societal health?
Respect for others, equality, basic human dignity, physical security, self-determination, freedom from arbitrary detention, presumption of innocence, freedom of movement, freedom of contract, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion…
Even the Founding Fathers didn’t give a shit about personal responsibility.
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### Author:  [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/13 "2011-04-21T15:52:27Z")
Basically, the U.S. is turning into a nation of egocentric, selfish gits.
Except for a couple hot button issues, and despite all attempts at demonization, the two U.S. parties really aren’t all that different. There’s a lot of rhetoric to make it sound like they are, but it’s mostly hot air.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/14 "2011-04-21T15:54:28Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> And if you fall back on the importance of consent, let me preempt that: Nothing government does is or should be consensual. Government is an authority; if it’s not coercive, you’re doing it wrong.
Apparently government does NOT “derive its just authority from the consent of the governed”. It exists to order people around against their will.
If that’s the direction the Democrats are heading, then they want to impose fascism in the literal sense of the term.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Whambulance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whambulance)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/15 "2011-04-21T16:50:34Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> OP, is it better to encourage responsibility or to take responsibility?
>
> If it’s desirable for individuals to be responsible, why not for a government?
>
> And if you fall back on the importance of consent, let me preempt that: Nothing government does is or should be consensual. Government is an authority; if it’s not coercive, you’re doing it wrong.
I have to concede that you and I have a completely different vision of the role of government, but I will give it a whirl.
It would absolutely be better to encourage responsibility rather than take it. A government choosing to take responsibility at its surmise that the people weren’t, is no longer led by the people.
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### Author:  [@Whambulance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whambulance)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/16 "2011-04-21T17:04:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> Respect for others, equality, basic human dignity, physical security, self-determination, freedom from arbitrary detention, presumption of innocence, freedom of movement, freedom of contract, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion…
>
> Even the Founding Fathers didn’t give a shit about personal responsibility.
While I agree with all of your points, I’m not sure you and I see ‘personal responsibility’ in the same light.
If you place personal responsibility on the same level, so to speak, as all of the other items in your list then its importance may seem dwarfed by some of them, like equality for instance.
It’s my argument that personal responsibility is a level higher than the points you mentioned in that it is necessary for all of them to work.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/17 "2011-04-21T17:09:16Z")
Well, I guess if everyone said “fuck it” and decided to sit on their couches and collect welfare, then the system would collapse… but people just don’t work that way (and our welfare system doesn’t work that way, either).
As long as work (and harder or more specialized work) is sufficiently compensated, people will always go out and do it. The government can’t legislate personal responsibility, because you either have it or you don’t.
What the government _can_ do is legislate for the people who would take responsibility for themselves but have no real opportunity to do so - the people in inner cities whose career options are slinging weed or slinging burgers, for example.
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### Author:  [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/18 "2011-04-21T17:28:18Z")
> [@Knorf](#):
>
> Basically, the U.S. is turning into a nation of egocentric, selfish gits.
>
> Except for a couple hot button issues, and despite all attempts at demonization, the two U.S. parties really aren’t all that different. There’s a lot of rhetoric to make it sound like they are, but it’s mostly hot air.
This is dead right. You’ve got two parties who compete in elections by using various issues to appeal to Americans with the aim of getting elected so that they can then bend over for the country’s corporations and wealthiest individuals.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/19 "2011-04-21T17:37:49Z")
Another vote for “the Democratic Party has no discernible direction”.
Another vote also for “the Democratic Party isn’t even remotely leftist”.
Another vote for “personal responsibility” as used by libertarians & conservatives to mean nothing like what the phrase sounds as if it means.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democratic-party-headed-in-the-wrong-direction/579187/20 "2011-04-21T17:38:50Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#):
>
> This is dead right. You’ve got two parties who compete in elections by using various issues to appeal to Americans with the aim of getting elected so that they can then bend over for the country’s corporations and wealthiest individuals.
Pretty much dead on, also.
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