# Is the Democrats identity politics paradigm helping or hurting in the age of Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 11, 2017, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673 "2017-06-11T05:53:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/61 "2017-06-13T04:54:33Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Tim314 wrote: “Sure, but are you suggesting they should drop issues like LGBT discrimination or racial bias in policing, because those are “minority issues” not “working class issues”?” > > The two are not, or at least shouldn’t be, mutually exclusive. I expect folks to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. Then what is the point of this thread? The Democrats _did_ spend quite a lot of time on “working class issues”. I would expect people to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time as well, but clearly this election has shown that they _cannot_. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/62 "2017-06-13T05:50:06Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Yes, and as another poster put it if you’re not invited to the birthday party you are going to chose other friends. This is true, but you’ve got the wrong end of the analogy. The Democrats didn’t abandon the white working class. The Republicans abandoned everybody else (and most of the white working class, too - the ones who really _do_ care about economic issues). The Republicans played identity politics, claiming that ensuring _everybody_’s rights was ‘ignoring’ the ‘white working class’ (the ones who are straight, cisgender, American-born, healthy, and Christian, anyway), and tying bullshit pseudo-economic concepts to same. And it worked for them. 26% of eligible voters, who happened to be concentrated in states with disproportionate power, gobbled it up like it was birthday cake. And nobody is ever going to reach them, without doing the same thing the Republicans did, and throwing everybody else under the bus. If the Democrats do, in fact, decide to jump on the identity politics bus and court them, that will be the end of the Democrats. Because the ones who bought into the identity politics before will not change affiliation, and everybody else will find another party that will actually support their rights, and sound economic practices. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/63 "2017-06-13T12:04:39Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > This is true, but you’ve got the wrong end of the analogy. > > The Democrats didn’t abandon the white working class. The Republicans abandoned everybody else (and most of the white working class, too - the ones who really _do_ care about economic issues). > > The Republicans played identity politics, claiming that ensuring _everybody_’s rights was ‘ignoring’ the ‘white working class’ (the ones who are straight, cisgender, American-born, healthy, and Christian, anyway), and tying bullshit pseudo-economic concepts to same. And it worked for them. 26% of eligible voters, who happened to be concentrated in states with disproportionate power, gobbled it up like it was birthday cake. > > And nobody is ever going to reach them, without doing the same thing the Republicans did, and throwing everybody else under the bus. > > If the Democrats do, in fact, decide to jump on the identity politics bus and court them, that will be the end of the Democrats. > > Because the ones who bought into the identity politics before will not change affiliation, and everybody else will find another party that will actually support their rights, and sound economic practices. I think the democrats are making a mistake if they think that they can win the next election by focusing on any specific demographic, whether it’s ‘needy Latinos’ or ‘the white working class’. They just need a damn message and a campaign that actually, minimally, feigns interest in building a party from the local levels on up. There’s no question that the overall strategy of the democratic party has absolutely sucked going back probably at least a good decade or more. No emphasis on state and local elections, focusing only on the white house, playing defense and never offense. Although I’m not a Bernie Bro the one thing I appreciated about his campaign is that he actually freaking had one. The bottom line is, the democrats actually need to campaign in flyover country and they’ll keep losing elections until they do. At the same time, I think there’s been an unhealthy obsession with trying to figure out the white working class and what they want – they want what everyone wants: jobs, education, opportunity, infrastructure, less crime. Democrats need to follow Bernie’s lead and have a message and a strategy. Right now, however, they just don’t have one other than “Trump sucks”. I worry that they’re making the same exact mistakes now that they made last year. They’re so completely shocked to the point of distraction by Trump’s daily outrages that they’re not really coming up with an alternative that voters want. When the GOP got its clocked cleaned by the Democrats in 1992, Newt Gingrich and the Republican party didn’t waste time feeling sorry for itself. They went on the attack but they also got to work on their own message and really connected with the working class, and not exclusively the white working class. That’s what Democrats need to do. Voter outrage over Trump will only carry them so far, and really, it means nothing in terms of the Senate – that’s in firm GOP hands until at least 2020 no matter what happens. Focus on the House. Focus on local races, too. Get a message. Get to work. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/64 "2017-06-13T12:11:01Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Saw this article in Business Insider, thought of this thread. > > [Trump voters support Civil War monuments (70%) more than the GOP health care bill (46%) or the ACA (38%).](http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-voters-confederate-memorials-gop-healthcare-bill-2017-6?) > > I think I know what issues Mr Shop Class really cares about, sorry. And I don’t agree with them, morally or intellectually. > > These people didn’t vote for Trump because they felt economically detached from the Democratic Party and Trump (and the GOP) fulfilled that need, they voted for Trump because they felt white-privileged detached from the Democratic Party, and Trump (and the GOP) fulfilled _that_ need. I think race is much more of an issue than people are willing to acknowledge. I don’t think everyone who voted for Trump is an Archie Bunker bigot, but there’s definitely a palpable racial anxiety that seems to be a common denominator. The post-election data I’ve seen suggests that education is the line of demarcation among Trump voters. In fact there’s a good article from 538’s website that makes this point: > **[Education, Not Income, Predicted Who Would Vote For Trump](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/)** > > Sometimes statistical analysis is tricky, and sometimes a finding just jumps off the page. Here’s one example of the latter. I took a list of all 981 U.S. count… But I guess I’m an ‘elitist’ for using 538 and having facts and data to make an argument. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/65 "2017-06-13T13:26:11Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think race is much more of an issue than people are willing to acknowledge. Sexism, too. The whole notion that the Republicans aren’t playing identity politics in playing on the anxieties of the “White Working Class” is exactly what the phrase “white privilege” is talking about. There’s a reason the Pubs always make sure to specify that it’s Whites who they’re concerned for. But because white is the societal default, they claim that it’s only the Dems who are concerned for special minorities. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/66 "2017-06-13T14:01:19Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > 1. Clinton will help minorities, Trump will help whites, so everyone voted in their interest. > > 2. Democrats and Republicans are proven liars when it comes to class issues. Trump may be lying, but maybe he’s not. Maybe he’s a vain narcissist who really does want to MAGA. Regarding 3. What kind of policies would those be? I can’t think of any policies that aren’t racist that would benefit minority working class people and not white working class people (and vise versa). I still think it comes down to the white working class deluding themselves into thinking they have more in common with rich white people than working class minorities. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/67 "2017-06-13T14:09:21Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Regarding 3. What kind of policies would those be? I can’t think of any policies that aren’t racist that would benefit minority working class people and not white working class people (and vise versa). Affirmative action? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/68 "2017-06-13T14:38:09Z")
It’s impossible to play identity politics for one or several groups without other groups feeling “identity-ish” as well. Suppose in a large diverse crowd, someone stands up and says, “Go Steelers!” And some other folks begin waving Terrible Towels, “Yeah, go Steelers!” That will likely have two effects: Some other folks may stand up, too: “Well then, go BENGALS!” “Go RAVENS!” And some folks who previously did \*not \*dislike the Steelers, may begin to dislike them just because of the identity politics. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/69 "2017-06-13T19:33:10Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I think I know what issues Mr Shop Class really cares about, sorry. And I don’t agree with them, morally or intellectually. I think right here is where where a lot of the rift occurs. Who is this Mr. Shop Class to you, John? I think when discourse starts to go down this road, the gulf widens. “Mr. Shop class” to me comes across as pejorative as if we were concerning the issues of, say, low income black families and someone were to say “Mr. Drug dealer gangbanger thug.” I think its worth noting that 30% (a quite sizable minority), were not in favor of of civil war monuments, and an even larger minority (38%) are in favor of the ACA, yet you want to paint them all as “Mr. Shop Class.” I think it’s also worth noting that on this very left leaning board this type of class prejudice goes unnoticed in a way that other prejudices don’t. I don’t mean to come across as scolding - which I know I am kind of coming across as, but I think this observation is very relevant to the topic at hand. It is my belief that many people are voting for Trump simply because he pisses people like John T off. After years of being told you are lesser, your views are irrelevant, you’re too stupid to understand - all based upon what you do for a living, that the appeal of someone like Trump becomes obvious. The candidates themselves do not say such prejudicial things about class - I only hear this sort of mocking from my everyday interactions with people who invariably claim to be democrats and liberal ( I must note, of the people I know who are democrats, the majority do not have these views). So, what happens is that many people are not so much listening to the candidates or the policies but instead are pleased beyond words that someone is taking on the attitudes and prejudices of the people who they encounter in their day to day lives. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/70 "2017-06-13T21:10:12Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > It’s impossible to play identity politics for one or several groups without other groups feeling “identity-ish” as well. > > Suppose in a large diverse crowd, someone stands up and says, “Go Steelers!” And some other folks begin waving Terrible Towels, “Yeah, go Steelers!” That will likely have two effects: Some other folks may stand up, too: “Well then, go BENGALS!” “Go RAVENS!” And some folks who previously did \*not \*dislike the Steelers, may begin to dislike them just because of the identity politics. So, what you’re saying is that the phrase “Black Lives Matter” is as offensive as loudly rooting for the New York Yankees to a bunch of Mets fans, at a Mets/Cardinals game? Really? ---
**Author:** ![yornmine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e480ec/32.png) [@yornmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yornmine)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/71 "2017-06-14T03:54:54Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > The only one with a lack of understanding here is you. You’re unable to grasp the fact that the Republican platform of _actively opposing_ the rights of everyone who’s not a straight, white, cisgender, American born conservative Christian man means that it doesn’t matter if the other groups are homogeneous, you are against their rights as a conglomerate. > > When you claim that black people have just as many rights as white people, and the only reason they have less success is because they’re all stupid, not because of systemic racism, they’re gonna know you’re racist. It doesn’t matter if you then turn to the transphobic among them, and say ‘hey, you hate trannies, right? We hate them more than we do you!’ > > The Democrats? They accept that everybody has rights. LOL! ---
**Author:** ![yornmine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e480ec/32.png) [@yornmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yornmine)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/72 "2017-06-14T03:56:39Z")
Of course not. It makes perfect sense for the DNC to tell working class voters to check their white privilege, such a tactic won’t completely backfire on them and cause them to lose states they’ve held for several decades. ---
**Author:** ![yornmine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e480ec/32.png) [@yornmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yornmine)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/73 "2017-06-14T04:11:57Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > So, what you’re saying is that the phrase “Black Lives Matter” is as offensive as loudly rooting for the New York Yankees to a bunch of Mets fans, at a Mets/Cardinals game? > > Really? No, BLM is several times more offensive since it’s several times stupider. HTH ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/74 "2017-06-14T04:23:06Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > So, what you’re saying is that the phrase “Black Lives Matter” is as offensive as loudly rooting for the New York Yankees to a bunch of Mets fans, at a Mets/Cardinals game? > > Really? To some folks, yes. To some other folks, hearing “Black Lives Matter” may make them go “All Lives/Blue Lives/White Lives Matter.” Remember, it doesn’t have to be _good_ logic to affect an election. It just has to be _vote-affecting_ logic. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/75 "2017-06-14T05:36:56Z")
> [@yornmine](#): > > No, BLM is several times more offensive since it’s several times stupider. HTH Care to explain why the statement “Black lives matter” is so offensively stupid? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/76 "2017-06-14T15:28:45Z")
Merneith wrote: “The whole notion that the Republicans aren’t playing identity politics in playing on the anxieties of the “White Working Class” is exactly what the phrase “white privilege” is talking about. There’s a reason the Pubs always make sure to specify that it’s Whites who they’re concerned for. But because white is the societal default, they claim that it’s only the Dems who are concerned for special minorities.” There is a non-racist way of viewing that if you simply say “majority v. minority”. The “societal default” is always to the majority because they’re, well, the majority. The term “minority” is used so often in a racial/cultural context that we forget its mathematical context. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/77 "2017-06-15T07:31:24Z")
But the majority ethnicity is still an “identity.” So white identity politics is still identity politics. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/78 "2017-06-15T17:01:11Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I think race is much more of an issue than people are willing to acknowledge. I don’t think everyone who voted for Trump is an Archie Bunker bigot, but there’s definitely a palpable racial anxiety that seems to be a common denominator. The post-election data I’ve seen suggests that education is the line of demarcation among Trump voters. In fact there’s a good article from 538’s website that makes this point: > > [Education, Not Income, Predicted Who Would Vote For Trump | FiveThirtyEight](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/education-not-income-predicted-who-would-vote-for-trump/) > > But I guess I’m an ‘elitist’ for using 538 and having facts and data to make an argument. :rolleyes: I agree. What I think the white liberals who scream about it being due to racism don’t get is that while there’s more than a little truth to it, what’s ignored is that when you look at their Facebook pages and listen to them tell political jokes it’s pretty clear the people they really hate are “liberals” and the image they have of this person is usually white. A college professor, a college student with dyed hair and a pierced nose, some “social justice warrior” who’s living in her mom’s basement while she has some criplliling student loans she can’t pay off because her art history degree doesn’t get her anything better than a job at Starbucks so she argues with strangers on the internet to make herself feel better and convince herself that she’s making a difference. They were the main targets of the Trump voters rage IMHO. The others were collateral damage more than anything else. Now, I don’t agree with them and find most of that rage misplaced if for no other reason than outside of the internet and college campuses these people they hate have no real power. However, if you’re not able to properly diagnose a problem you’ll never find the proper cure. I’ll also freely admit I don’t know what the solution is. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/79 "2017-06-15T17:05:18Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > They were the main targets of the Trump voters rage IMHO. The others were collateral damage more than anything else. Yes, I clearly remember all of the patched-suited-professors being burnt in effigy over the last 8 years. Anyone else who might have been strung up in absentia was mere collateral damage. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673/80 "2017-06-15T17:37:54Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Yes, I clearly remember all of the patched-suited-professors being burnt in effigy over the last 8 years. Anyone else who might have been strung up in absentia was mere collateral damage. I said “main targets”. Also the number of people who show up at those kinds of rallies are dwarfed by the number of people who take part in social media. I also doubt the people who hanged Obamacare in effigy ever voted for him. It seems to me we should be thinking of the people who voted for him twice and then switched to Trump. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-democrats-identity-politics-paradigm-helping-or-hurting-in-the-age-of-trump/788673.md?page=5)