# Is the Department of Motor Vehicles that bad in other countries, too? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 25, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119 "2018-04-25T20:57:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/21 "2018-04-25T23:52:38Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > California DMV is fine, you can make an appointment. They have a good website that will let you know what is needed for the various things that you can do at the DMV. Yeah. The last time I had to go I made an appointment and was out of there in half an hour. Much better than a lot of commercial establishments I’ve been to. Ditto for Social Security. Getting an appointment takes a while, but both times I’ve done so I’ve waited less than 10 minutes. The wait for the masses without an appointment seemed very long though. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/22 "2018-04-26T00:04:14Z")
The biggest single difference between a good visit and a bad visit is when you go. In Missouri, both your driver’s license and car registration expire on the last day of the month. A visit anytime in the last five business days, especially early in the morning or late in the afternoon, can be agonizingly slow. Go there early in the month, in midmorning or midafternoon, and if you have the four things you need (registration renewal notice, proof of insurance, property tax receipt, and money) you can be in and out in less than 10 minutes. Renewing a driver’s license can take a little longer, because there’s usually only one machine for vision testing, but it’s still tolerable. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/23 "2018-04-26T00:18:28Z")
> [@pdhenry](#): > > PA DMV (PennDOT) isn’t bad for the quadrennial license renewal. I’m usually in and out in 10 minutes. That’s just for the photo center, right? That’s all you need to do for renewals. For getting a license (like when moving from out of state) there is a long wait to get your paperwork processed - _then_ you get to go to the photo center. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/24 "2018-04-26T00:34:23Z")
Pennsylvania is actually pretty decent about most of this. A lot of PennDOT services are online, so you can renew your car registration online and you can even renew your license, though they will send you a camera card that you have to take in so that they can take your picture and give you the physical license. For a lot of things, you can avoid the DMV altogether. If you do have to go in, how bad the local DMV office is depends on where you are and how busy they are. I happen to be close to Gettysburg, which isn’t too bad most of the time. I shudder to think what one of the Philadelphia offices would be like. There are also good times and bad times to go. If you go during the summer when all of the teenagers are getting their driver’s licenses, you are going to sit for a very long time. If you go on a weekday morning in the dead of winter, you’ll be in and out in 5 minutes, maybe a bit longer if you are getting your license picture taken since they have to print it out and wait for it to dry/cool/whatever. At the Gettysburg office, the photo center is a separate line from the rest, so even if they are busy with driver’s exams and whatever, you can still get your photo taken fairly quickly as long as the photo center line isn’t too long. When I lived in Baltimore, the DMV there (Glen Burnie) was a friggen nightmare. That was a couple of decades ago though. I have no idea how they are now. As for tags, to me it’s no big deal that you have to go somewhere else to get your tags taken care of. The local tag place is much closer than Gettysburg, and I have always been in and out of there in about 5 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/25 "2018-04-26T01:24:39Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > California DMV is fine, you can make an appointment. They have a good website that will let you know what is needed for the various things that you can do at the DMV. I don’t know what happened to the California DMV, or maybe it was just the office I went to: Last month I had an appointment and I STILL had to wait an hour in line. That had never happened before. Yes, everybody in my line had an appointment too. There was another line for people without appointments. It went all the way around the outside of the building. I think it’s because the implementation of “Real ID” has brought a lot more people into the offices than before, and they are overwhelmed. I had not seen anything like it in years. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/26 "2018-04-26T02:51:38Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > I was actually going to mention New Jersey. > > While I wouldn’t call it a pleasant experience\*, I was generally in and out in a few minutes, aside from my initial registration\*\*. > > \*I grew up and currently live in Ohio, where professional, succinct and efficient are often seen as rude. For gosh sakes, no one called me hon, sweety, or darling! > > \*\*Bought the car in Ohio, registered in Jersey. It greatly depends on which office you go to. The one that is a few miles from my house is quick. There are rarely long lines or often any line at all. The one near where I work is a madhouse. There is never enough room and the line snakes outside. ---
**Author:** ![Arabella\_Flynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8491ac/32.png) [@Arabella\_Flynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arabella_Flynn)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/27 "2018-04-26T03:19:19Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Not sure about other countries, but there is an enormous variation between states in the US. From my relatively limited experience, the experience is worse the farther east you go: > > 1. Massachusetts - the dreaded Registry of Motor Vehicles. Now my experience is from the late 80s, but the memory still give me nightmares. Every stereotype about the DMV was true. Wait fifteen minutes in one line, just to be told to go to the back a different line. Lines to get forms to fill out and take to other lines. Surly, disinterested clerks. When I moved to Boston in 2011, I had to go down to the Chinatown RMV (now closed, it’s moved to Haymarket) to get my MA ID. Can’t say that visit was overly fun, although it also wasn’t overly cruel – just tedious. I think I needed to get a money order to pay for it, because I didn’t have a checking account at the time. The subsequent renewal, however, was much easier. If none of your paperwork has changed, they will allow you to send them a $25 bribe via the MassDOT website to get the new card mailed to your house. They don’t require you to come in to file a change of address either; you tell them online, and they are so lazy about it their official instruction is almost literally “write it on a label and stick that to the back of your ID”. I have no idea about getting an actual license. I don’t even know where they’d have given you the exam. Downtown Boston is NOT the place I’d want to be graded on my newly-acquired driving skills. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Room](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_room/32/5069_2.png) [@Little\_Room](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Room)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/28 "2018-04-26T03:30:23Z")
Rural Illinois is easy at the Secretary of State’s office. I’ve heard worse about Chicago area, but the lack of lines makes it pretty simple in the hinterlands, even when the clerks are surly and rude. Ive also done all this stuff in Kentucky; everything is done at the county level (county clerk). There are also less lines in rural areas, but I remember I had to get a safety inspection from the Sheriff’s office (which was about as involved as you would expect for $5), and you have to show your proof of insurance to transfer or get a sticker. I’ve never had them do that in Illinois. Just another data point for “50 states, 50 variations”…it’s hard to say much about the US as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![thornyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/48db29/32.png) [@thornyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thornyrose)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/29 "2018-04-26T05:25:11Z")
In a fairly small in town in Rural Victoria Australia There are usually about 10 people in a queue. They issue numbered tickets so you can sit down or wander around collecting info pamphlets. My usual wait is about 20 minutes or less. And I can see staff working with people the whole time - which helps the mood somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/30 "2018-04-26T05:49:11Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Victoria, Australia - no, VicRoads customer service is a model of quiet efficiency (though the road accident insurance section has a nasty reputation for not paying out very well … but that’s insurance for you) > > If you want nightmarish bureaucracy, you want CenterLink (the unemployment office) Vic DMV was never as bad as described here, but it was a lot worse in the 80’s than it is now. The long waits in railway-station-like public area. The surly clerks behind glass and steel, who couldn’t hear you and who you couldn’t hear. The transfer of documents from one clerk to the next. The payment window and receipt to authorise the next part of the process. In contrast, airport control has gone backwards. It’s worse than a step back in time. Supervisors who don’t. Being directed to dead-end queues. The staff staff casually talking among themselves while the plebeians wait. Shouting at people who don’t understand English. I won’t talk about Centrelink. That would have to go to the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/31 "2018-04-26T06:00:45Z")
My DMV experience in Chicago _sucked_ - and that was on a good day. On one occasion it took me four hours to do an uncomplicated license renewal. By the time they took my picture I had an expression so evil my spouse told me never to get pulled over because I’d be arrested just on the basis of that photo, I looked like I was about to kill something. On the other hand, here in Indiana I don’t think I ever waited more than 20 minutes tops for anything. Pleasant clerks. And it’s not like it’s an upscale suburb, I live in Gary, Indiana which bears more than a passing resemblance to Detroit in the late 1970’s. ---
**Author:** ![Tabby\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/32 "2018-04-26T06:20:35Z")
Singapore. I literally don’t know where or what entity would handle this. I assume the Land Transport Authority, but I actually have no idea, I’ve never had to deal with them. Registration of the car was done by my dealer, and I basically just signed the forms, paid the money and waited for the paperwork to be done. Got notified that I got my car, drove it home. I got my driver’s licence in 2003. Had to go through a mandatory training course/test, passed, and the licence came in the mail after - I don’t recall going to pick it up. It doesn’t expire so I’ve never had to renew it. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/33 "2018-04-26T06:30:09Z")
California DMV is very easy–with appointment. If you can’t be bothered to make an appointment online, well, too bad so sad. Re-registration is online, and if you have to take your vehicle for an emissions test, there are loads of places to get it done fast and cheap, and they transmit the results electronically to the state. I left NY 15 years ago but at the time they were making a very successful attempt to streamline the experience–obviously that may have changed drastically. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/34 "2018-04-26T06:37:52Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > California DMV is fine, you can make an appointment. They have a good website that will let you know what is needed for the various things that you can do at the DMV. Yes–I think at one time in the past CA was much worse, but they made a real effort to improve things. The real point to consider for the OP is that most countries have a national form of ID–completely independent from vehicle licensing–so whatever agency handles vehicles isn’t overburdoned with that task. The OP’s quesiton is comparing apples with oranges. (Plus, as pointed out above, you have 50 different agencies handling it in the U.S., so there’s no way to streamline it uniformly.) Think about it. In the US, just about _everyone_ has to go to DMV, whether you drive or not. It’s not like that in other countries. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/35 "2018-04-26T07:14:25Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I won’t talk about Centrelink. That would have to go to the pit. Yes, I wonder why it’s the DMV that gets all the hate in the US, and not whatever office handles welfare (DSS?) Because AFAICT those are terrible _everywhere_. I mostly attribute it to stigma - you can get up a great head of steam hating on Centerlink on Facebook with fellow-Aussies, but I think in the US a lot of people would be unwilling to admit to ever having been near a welfare place ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/36 "2018-04-26T09:25:48Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > …as pointed out above, you have 50 different agencies handling it in the U.S., so there’s no way to streamline it uniformly… Way, there is; what’s lacking is any will to do it. We Can Be Different, Therefore Different Shall We Be isn’t exactly a unique mindset (riiiight, Spanish Autonomías on any subject you manage locally?). The US is also one of the locations where plates need to change both periodically and when you move. In Spain we don’t need to change them periodically or if we move within the country; if we move to another country nearby we may need to change plates eventually depending on local law and multilateral treaties (for example, in Germany you do need to renew plates; a German moving to Spain stops needing to do so). Getting the car _matriculado_ (registered and plated; _matrícula_ means license plate in this case) is done by the store, most people wouldn’t even know that involves DGT. I’ve only had to deal with the Florida DMV (not particularly painful, and I was surprised at how ridiculously easy the tests themselves were: “we don’t go into traffic at all? 😕”) and with Penn (impossible: being a foreigner I had to either claim my Spanish license was from France or Germany, in which case I’d get a local one straightaway, or take a minimum of 40h driving lessons yeahrightlikeIvegottimeforthat; my Florida license was irrelevant). With Spain’s DGT there is a lot of things you can do at a distance, specially once you’ve got your driver’s license; if you have to go in person and even though you can get an appointment in advance it’s a good idea to bring a book, simply because it makes the wait feel shorter (doesn’t make those hard plastic chairs any comfier). The workers tend to be efficient and quick; you can always run into one who’s having a toothache but “sour and cranky” is thankfully not the default. But! I do have an issue with them. When the Spanish government decided to start printing IDs instead of typing them, they had to come up with ways to abbreviate our usually-very-long firstnames. Speaking of “way vs will”: the abbreviation chosen by DGT was different from that chosen by the Nacionales who issue National IDs and Passports :mad: It led me to have problems for years, but what made me break down and get a “change of name” just so I’d be able to get my idiotic government to always print my name the same way was a Danish rental car person who refused to let me take my car until I hit on mentioning their own funny letters and how computers never treat them right (phew!). INEM or whatever they’re called this week (the unemployment and employment-improvement people) get a bad rap, but it’s 99% caused by companies not using them right or by other people having bad info. “INEM never gets anybody a job!” Well, how many companies go there searching for people? Hey look, Disneyworld Paris and Port Aventura do! Maybe if other companies used INEM better, INEM would work better! ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/37 "2018-04-26T09:49:27Z")
All this makes the \*United \*States look a lot less united than most of us foreigners would expect. Even the EU, with all its disparate governments, managed to unify driving tests and licences. GB, which opted out of many of the integrating stuff, signed up to this one and it looks likely that it will continue post-Brexit. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/38 "2018-04-26T10:12:58Z")
Tickety-Boo in Ontario, Canada. ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/39 "2018-04-26T10:57:25Z")
> [@pdhenry](#): > > I had to spend some time at the Social Security office to replace a Social Security card that I don’t think I’ve seen in my adult life. I would gladly visit any DMV office rather than go through that again. > > PA DMV (PennDOT) isn’t bad for the quadrennial license renewal. I’m usually in and out in 10 minutes. I just replaced mine online. 5 minutes to fill out the form and I had a new card in about 3 weeks ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119/40 "2018-04-26T11:50:58Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Yes–I think at one time in the past CA was much worse, but they made a real effort to improve things. > > The real point to consider for the OP is that most countries have a national form of ID–completely independent from vehicle licensing–so whatever agency handles vehicles isn’t overburdoned with that task. The OP’s quesiton is comparing apples with oranges. (Plus, as pointed out above, you have 50 different agencies handling it in the U.S., so there’s no way to streamline it uniformly.) > > Think about it. In the US, just about _everyone_ has to go to DMV, whether you drive or not. It’s not like that in other countries. That’s not the case in Canada. We don’t have a national ID card. The driving licence performs that function. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-department-of-motor-vehicles-that-bad-in-other-countries-too/813119.md?page=3)