# Is the end near for the paper industry? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 1, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-end-near-for-the-paper-industry/773537 "2016-12-01T16:16:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-end-near-for-the-paper-industry/773537/41 "2016-12-02T21:12:31Z")
> [@jonesj2205](#): > > I asked a coworker for an email she received once. She printed it out and faxed it to me. Here’s a case where this (minus the faxing) was done for [55,000 pages of emails](http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/11/technology/security/hillary-email-paper/). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-end-near-for-the-paper-industry/773537/42 "2016-12-02T21:23:12Z")
> [@Waxwinged](#): > > Nowhere near. There will always be a need for toilet paper. [Tell that to the Japanese.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1160707/Introducing-high-tech-paperless-toilet-leaves-clean-dry-tearing-trees.html) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-end-near-for-the-paper-industry/773537/43 "2016-12-02T22:59:41Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > [Tell that to the Japanese.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1160707/Introducing-high-tech-paperless-toilet-leaves-clean-dry-tearing-trees.html) They still use toilet paper in Japan, as I can attest from my visits to Tokyo. Those high tech toilets haven’t caught on everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-end-near-for-the-paper-industry/773537/44 "2016-12-03T01:30:28Z")
> [@femmejean](#): > > Considering the fact that most people have an irrational dislike of electronic books, no. I’ve heard that even college kids don’t like them. Why is that? Personally I find it much tougher to learn a subject electronically. Picking up nuggets of information from sites like this one is not a problem. If I ever needed to relearn my physics or statistics online I’d be wasting my time. Give me a paper book though and I’d be back up to speed in a few days. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-end-near-for-the-paper-industry/773537/45 "2016-12-03T04:53:04Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > Making paper from traditional forestry/logging methods is on the decline. Modern lumber mills have very little wood waste and because of that a much higher percentage of that waste is bark and unsuitable for efficient paper production. The industry is moving towards plantation style forestry which is centered around the southern US. Why is there less wood waste now than before? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-end-near-for-the-paper-industry/773537/46 "2016-12-03T05:03:06Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Why is there less wood waste now than before? Computerized sawing equipment, I expect. It can measure the logs via lasers and cut things quite exactly to minimize waste. ---
**Author:** ![Terry\_Kennedy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@Terry\_Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terry_Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-end-near-for-the-paper-industry/773537/47 "2016-12-03T05:22:16Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Why is there less wood waste now than before? Improvements in cutting. The first shaped wood beams were created via the “use an axe and remove anything that doesn’t look like a beam”. Then came single-saw mills that lopped off the 4 sides of a piece of wood via repeated passes. Then there were multi-saw units that did all of the cuts in one direction, followed by either another pass or feeding to a second saw that cut the opposite direction. Anything left over from those operations got used for secondary purposes like paper. Now we have computer-controlled laser-optimized saws that get every last achievable board out of a piece of raw lumber. [Here](https://www.joescan.com/) is a site with a brief video. The uses of wood have also changed - while my house has 10" x 12" main support beams that are 40’ long or so, these days metal I-beams or laminated beams are used for that application. The up-to-14’ long floorboards in my house would be random short pieces fingerjointed together in a new house (if it wasn’t all laminate / carpet / tile). Some of the remaining pieces of wood go into chipboard, sometimes some are burned to heat the drying kilns, etc. - all of which leaves less for secondary purposes like paper. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-end-near-for-the-paper-industry/773537/48 "2016-12-03T20:04:28Z")
Not all wood is suitable for efficient paper manufacturing. But there are many things that can be used as a substitute. For instance the waste left over after sugarcane production, after the cane has been ‘juiced’, is used for paper manufacture in South America. ETA: A good and recent book on [the history of paper](https://www.amazon.ca/Paper-Through-History-Mark-Kurlansky/dp/0393239616/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1480795543&sr=1-1&keywords=mark+kurlansky). Remember that paper making was a big technological step forward at the time… ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-end-near-for-the-paper-industry/773537/49 "2016-12-03T20:14:22Z")
A general footnote, but I’ve been able to get a laugh by intoning the following phrase any time I’m in a room full of people with printed reports or invoices or whatever… “Theeee… Paperless Office of the Future.” ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-end-near-for-the-paper-industry/773537/50 "2016-12-03T20:46:29Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Computerized sawing equipment, I expect. It can measure the logs via lasers and cut things quite exactly to minimize waste. > [@Terry\_Kennedy](#): > > Improvements in cutting. The first shaped wood beams were created via the “use an axe and remove anything that doesn’t look like a beam”. Then came single-saw mills that lopped off the 4 sides of a piece of wood via repeated passes. Then there were multi-saw units that did all of the cuts in one direction, followed by either another pass or feeding to a second saw that cut the opposite direction. Anything left over from those operations got used for secondary purposes like paper. Now we have computer-controlled laser-optimized saws that get every last achievable board out of a piece of raw lumber. [Here](https://www.joescan.com/) is a site with a brief video. The uses of wood have also changed - while my house has 10" x 12" main support beams that are 40’ long or so, these days metal I-beams or laminated beams are used for that application. The up-to-14’ long floorboards in my house would be random short pieces fingerjointed together in a new house (if it wasn’t all laminate / carpet / tile). Some of the remaining pieces of wood go into chipboard, sometimes some are burned to heat the drying kilns, etc. - all of which leaves less for secondary purposes like paper. Interesting, thanks guys. So if I’m understanding this correctly, the supply of wood scraps (traditionally used in papermaking) is declining, but the demand is not due to increases in packaging and the growth of the middle class in Asia. So, we’re chopping up more full trees for paper (the plantation farming mentioned by **sitchensis** )? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-end-near-for-the-paper-industry/773537/51 "2016-12-03T21:15:53Z")
Paper that is used for newspapers, magazines and books will continue to decline paper for boxes, household goods etc. etc no. This link is interesting > **[Frequent Questions | Paper Recycling | US EPA](https://archive.epa.gov/wastes/conserve/materials/paper/web/html/faqs.html#recycle)** > > frequently asked questions about paper and how it is recycled And looking at the paper wiki -banana paper? It’s gorgeous! > **[Banana Paper](https://www.mulberrypaperandmore.com/c-246-banana-paper.aspx)** > > Banana papers are an environmentally-conscious paper. Banana trees produce fruit only once a year and are then cut down, leaving abundant waste or by-product. Recycling the fiber from this by-product, into paper, helps to prevent the eco-system’s... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-end-near-for-the-paper-industry/773537.md?page=2)