# Is the English 'You' a formal or informal way of address? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 2, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474 "2015-11-02T23:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mr\_wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@mr\_wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr_wolf)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/1 "2015-11-02T23:45:22Z")
Please be intuitive. Leave aside school answers or what you think is might be ‘correct’. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/2 "2015-11-02T23:47:33Z")
Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/3 "2015-11-02T23:57:11Z")
Unable to put my knowlege aside - I’ve worked Renaissance Faire too long to not know the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/4 "2015-11-03T00:00:25Z")
In present-day English, it’s both formal and informal. That should have been a choice in the poll. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/5 "2015-11-03T00:04:26Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > In present-day English, it’s both formal and informal. That should have been a choice in the poll. Exactly. It’s like asking us to choose whether you refers to a man or a woman. It’s a pronoun that covers both. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/6 "2015-11-03T00:14:14Z")
I voted ‘informal’ because I have no idea what you are talking about and my intuition is very informal. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/7 "2015-11-03T00:16:14Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > In present-day English, it’s both formal and informal. That should have been a choice in the poll. Or perhaps neither, like “the” or “bicycle.” If I say “You are the President of the United States, you don’t have to ride the subway,” I don’t think “You” is being using formally or informally. But I never studied grammar, so I could be missing something important. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/8 "2015-11-03T00:22:38Z")
I see to recall (but could very well be wrong) that “you” was the formal term, and “thou” was the informal term. For some reason, “you” became the one-size fits all, and “thou”, all but forgotten, became the formal, but very, very limited term. [A quick Google reveals that my recall was correct.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou) ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/9 "2015-11-03T02:07:55Z")
In contemporary English the pronouns (I, you, he, she, it, we, they) are used both formally and informally. I don’t “think” that might be correct, I know that’s correct. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/10 "2015-11-03T02:16:49Z")
There are formal and informal pronouns in English. “Youse” and “you all” are informal; “whom” is formal. However, the most common pronouns are both. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/11 "2015-11-03T03:25:41Z")
I always grin when Darth Vader bends his knee to the Emperor…and then speaks to him in the familiar. Could be worse. There was a comic book that had the line, “Canst it be? A demon trys to rescueth me!” Sic sic sic sicko! ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/12 "2015-11-03T03:49:52Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > I always grin when Darth Vader bends his knee to the Emperor…and then speaks to him in the familiar. There is precedent, though: [O Lord, rebuke me not in thine anger, neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.](http://legacy.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+1&version=KJV) ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/13 "2015-11-03T04:31:15Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > There is precedent, though: > > [O Lord, rebuke me not in thine anger, neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.](http://legacy.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+1&version=KJV) Well, that link was _supposed_ to be to [Psalm 6:1](http://legacy.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+6%3A1&version=KJV), darn it. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/14 "2015-11-03T04:38:06Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > There is precedent, though: > > [O Lord, rebuke me not in thine anger, neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.](http://legacy.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+1&version=KJV) Thing is, in the KJV, they are speaking to God in the familiar. Yes, they do say “Lord,” but they are using the language of close friends, family members, or lovers. (Or even the language used with social inferiors.) Darth Vader wasn’t! I read, some years ago, motorists in Germany could be fined for addressing a police officer in the familiar. Don’t go all “du” on me, fellow! But Americans have a distant, austere, formal way of thinking about God, and this has led many to imagine that the “thee and thou” of the KJV is the formal, hyper-respectful language that a servant would use to his master. T’aint so! (I think you know this; I’m just a-preachin’ to the choir!) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/15 "2015-11-03T09:36:19Z")
The court of Denethor in Minas Tirith was amused by Pippin’s use of the familiar _thou_ to the steward. Maybe they took the hobbit for a court jester there for a job interview, since court jesters are the only ones allowed to smartmouth off to the ruler’s face (except for his mom). If so, they quickly had another think coming as Peregrin son of Paladin quickly turned into a soldier swearing allegiance to Gondor.\* But then there seems to have been a general overall feeling during and after the War of the Ring that the old ways were all worn out and the world needed to change, so what the heck. \*and that song he sang to Denethor in the movie? Never happened in the book; it was actually a Rohanian poem recited by Aragorn in a completely different chapter set in Rohan. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/16 "2015-11-03T10:21:10Z")
We’ve assumed OP means how “you” maps to the distinction in other languages (tu/vous, du/Sie, etc.) If the question is about using “you” as an _opening_ form of address (as in “Oi, you! Yes, you there!”, then it can be very informal! ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/17 "2015-11-03T10:51:34Z")
I knew the “correct” answer because of studying about the KJV of the Bible, but the question really doesn’t make sense in the same way that other languages actually have formal and informal ways of saying “you” where modern English has lost the distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/18 "2015-11-03T11:00:12Z")
If it’s informal, then what’s more formal than it? If it’s informal, what’s less? ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/19 "2015-11-03T11:42:59Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If it’s informal, then what’s more formal than it? “One” > [@Alessan](#): > > If it’s informal, what’s less? Oi short arse ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/20 "2015-11-03T12:26:42Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > “One” One what? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474.md?page=2)