# Is the English 'You' a formal or informal way of address? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 2, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474 "2015-11-02T23:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![chaika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chaika/32/405_2.png) [@chaika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaika)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/21 "2015-11-03T13:28:38Z")
There is only one way to say “you” in contemporary English. Historically, “you” was formal, “thou” was familiar. In most languages that have retained the familiar/formal divide, the familiar form of address is used when speaking to God, as well as family, friends, children, animals (and bad drivers). I think it’s rather a shame that English lost “thou” as a form of address. It would be handy if there was a way to signal intimacy or formality with a single word, as is possible in many languages. ---
**Author:** ![mr\_wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@mr\_wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr_wolf)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/22 "2015-11-03T13:34:11Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > > [@SanVito](#): > > > > “One” > > One what? One does need to brush up on forms of address. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/23 "2015-11-03T13:34:53Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > There are formal and informal pronouns in English. “Youse” and “you all” are informal; “whom” is formal. However, the most common pronouns are both. “whom” is not formal. It’s the objective case of who ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/24 "2015-11-03T14:16:07Z")
> [@mr\_wolf](#): > > One does need to brush up on forms of address. Well, then, when you find out, let me know who he is. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/25 "2015-11-03T14:23:39Z")
There is no formal/informal divide in English (except among a few Quakers who, illogically, use thee for singular–instead of thou). ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/26 "2015-11-03T14:39:54Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > There is no formal/informal divide in English (except among a few Quakers who, illogically, use thee for singular–instead of thou). Thee is the objective case of thou, not the plural. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/27 "2015-11-03T14:59:29Z")
Formal, informal, singular and plural. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/28 "2015-11-03T15:21:13Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > If I say “You are the President of the United States, you don’t have to ride the subway,” I don’t think “You” is being using formally or informally. But I never studied grammar, so I could be missing something important. The comma splice. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/29 "2015-11-03T15:37:41Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > We’ve assumed OP means how “you” maps to the distinction in other languages (tu/vous, du/Sie, etc.) > > If the question is about using “you” as an _opening_ form of address (as in “Oi, you! Yes, you there!”, then it can be very informal! Yes, it should be clear to anyone reading the OP that the question is not whether “you” maps to, for instance “_tu_ or _usted_”. And the answer is… depends. _Would you like coffee or tea_, can certainly be as formal as one would like. _You go sit over there_, would sound rude in most formal settings. ---
**Author:** ![lms4747](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@lms4747](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lms4747)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/30 "2015-11-03T16:16:25Z")
I voted “formal” because the OP wrote “You” which is different than “you”. I do not know how to pronounce “you” with a capital Y, though. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/31 "2015-11-03T16:18:21Z")
“Thou” is the informal form of the second person. “You” is really referring to the person in the plural. Now if you will excuse me, I have to go get bled to cure myself of bubonic plague. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/32 "2015-11-03T20:39:27Z")
There’s no formal (or informal) variant, so obviously it’s both. That’s not a poll option though. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/33 "2015-11-03T20:51:18Z")
> [@mr\_wolf](#): > > Please be intuitive. Leave aside school answers or what you think is might be ‘correct’. Inadequate responses. English has very few mechanisms for marking formality, intimacy, or hierarchy. The form of 2nd person address is one area that lacks such a mechanism. So the correct answer, not in the poll, is “Neither.” Or “Both.” ETA: Like almost everybody else here said. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/34 "2015-11-03T21:00:12Z")
Lad, thou’ll thou those as thou’s thee. Think on’t! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/35 "2015-11-03T23:38:23Z")
If I had to choose, I would go with informal. This is simply because there is a type of formal writing in which one attempts to avoid the second person entirely. I am aware that “you” was originally either plural or the formal singular. I am also aware that “thou” was formerly informal, but, due to its age and use in certain works like the King James Bible, has become thought of as more formal. ---
**Author:** ![jabiru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbce88/32.png) [@jabiru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jabiru)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/36 "2015-11-04T00:57:41Z")
Both. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/37 "2015-11-04T22:48:48Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > There are formal and informal pronouns in English. “Youse” and “you all” are informal; “whom” is formal. However, the most common pronouns are both. No, there aren’t formal/informal in today’s English. Youse and you all are slang, not informal. Whom is just a word only still around today for certain types to be pedantic about. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/38 "2015-11-04T23:57:48Z")
I still don’t understand why there’s a poll. “Thou” and its inflections historically constituted the familiar second person singular, while “you”\* and its inflections constituted the familiar second person singular. Presumably along the lines of the “royal We”, the plural “You” also came to be used as a formal address for social superiors, as well as a sign of courtesy to socially equal strangers. Gradually, “you” became the preferred version of the word regardless of the number of listeners or their social status. According to one theory cited in Kevin Stroud’s [podcast](http://historyofenglishpodcast.com/episodes/)\*\* on the history of the English language, this happened out of people’s preference for erring on the side of formality. \*\*I don’t remember which episode of the podcast this was; there are nearly seventy published so far. It is what it is, and it was what it was. Why should we be voting on this? \*Obviously not “you”, “yours” exactly, but the various words that evolved into them. \*\*I don’t remember which episode of the podcast this was; there are nearly seventy published so far. ---
**Author:** ![mr\_wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@mr\_wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr_wolf)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/39 "2015-11-05T02:01:18Z")
Spectre of Pithecanthropus, the sector you bode from, how is it called in common parlance? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474/40 "2015-11-10T09:27:36Z")
> [@mr\_wolf](#): > > Spectre of Pithecanthropus, the sector you bode from, how is it called in common parlance? More or less the USA, though the sector may additionally extend through some of the border regions. Oh I’ll grant you, one can find marmite here if one is willing to seek it out, but it’s definitely not a commonly seen product. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-english-you-a-formal-or-informal-way-of-address/736474.md?page=3)