# Is the FBI right in decrying the stronger encryption about to come to smartphones? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754 "2014-09-28T02:28:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/101 "2014-09-28T22:02:12Z")
If you honestly believe that Apple and Google have your best interests in mind more so than the US government does, then you may as well switch your party registration now and sign on for Santorum '16, because you’ve long since abandoned anything liberal in your soul. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/102 "2014-09-28T22:05:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They _did_ quietly capitulate, and …then they got caught engaging in conspiracy against their customers and found themselves forced back into line. You seem to be the last Pacific-island holdout in favor of the Gilded Age practice of corporate conspiracy against the consumer. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/103 "2014-09-28T22:07:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You’d think that if the matter had already been settled, then there wouldn’t be a public outcry and publicity campaign from the Fibbies because the phone companies would already have quietly capitulated. Apparently, _somebody_ in government didn’t get the word that they have already won the battle. > Maybe you’d like to drop them a note? Actually, he could drop a note to anybody at all… at least until the tech improvements become standard features of the various networks. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/104 "2014-09-28T22:21:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > They _did_ quietly capitulate, and that would have been that if not for the treason of a certain bespectacled Putinist. What can I say in the face of such sad self-parody? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/105 "2014-09-28T22:46:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Never thought I’d see the day when people who claimed to call themselves liberals were _cheering_ for the triumph of multinational conglomerates over the government. Never thought I’d see the day when people who claimed to be conservative cheered the expansion of government power. Then it happened in late 2001, and has snowballed since. It’s a disgusting sight to behold. Government power should be strictly limited to only that minimum needed to function within Constitutional boundaries. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/106 "2014-09-28T23:02:58Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Never thought I’d see the day when people who claimed to be conservative cheered the expansion of government power. Then it happened in late 2001, and has snowballed since. It’s a disgusting sight to behold. Government power should be strictly limited to only that minimum needed to function within Constitutional boundaries. Does this mean you are claiming **Smapti** for your side? Because I certainly don’t want him on mine! ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/107 "2014-09-28T23:13:48Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Does this mean you are claiming **Smapti** for your side? Because I certainly don’t want him on mine! I don’t want him either. If I have to take him, then we get to bat first and last, and his outs don’t count. Or maybe he could play catcher for both teams… ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/108 "2014-09-29T00:23:55Z")
[How domestic spying program generates profits for NSA](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/09/28/1332954/-How-domestic-spying-program-generates-profits-for-NSA) I picture an endless loop of “The Peni–, er, The Profit Is Evil… The State Is Good…” as smoke pours from his ears. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/109 "2014-09-29T00:34:16Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If you honestly believe that Apple and Google have your best interests in mind more so than the US government does, then you may as well switch your party registration now and sign on for Santorum '16, because you’ve long since abandoned anything liberal in your soul. [TRELAINE] Oh, really, you _must_ try harder; this is _too easy_! [/TRELAINE] > [@](#): > > [Santorum: Public should not know](http://www.ydr.com/ci_3818806) > > People do not have a right to know the government is collecting information on their phone calls, U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum said during a Friday visit to Shippensburg. > > Santorum said the ability of the National Security Agency to track phone calls is just another tool in the government’s war against terrorism and not something that should have been made public… I guess when you froth at the mouth about this issue, you’re expressing solidarity with your intellectual soulmate. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/110 "2014-09-29T01:16:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > So why are you so worried that the government will find out you’re behaving legally? Just because it is illegal for the government to persecute you on the basis of your constitutionally protected actions doesn’t mean they don’t do it if you give them the chance. For example, the United States government has been caught strong-arming banks to suppress a variety of “undesirable” yet protected enterprises, such as producers of pornography and journalism protected by the First Amendment and enablers of gun ownership protected by the Second Amendment. > [@MEBuckner](#): > > This isn’t _just_ about protection from overweening government agents. A bunch of famous people have just had some of their private pictures leaked all over the Internet. If The Company (whichever company it is) has a “backdoor” to my data, that is not only something that can be used by the government (either legitimately, acting upon a warrant issued upon probable cause and particularly describing the object of the search…or maybe not so legitimately), it is _also_ potentially something that some busy little hacker could find out about and exploit. > > If there’s been a rash of home invasion robberies in my neighborhood, I have a right to install stronger doors and put burglar bars on my windows. That this might also inconvenience some hypothetical SWAT team is just too darned bad. This. Even if you are gullible enough to believe the government never abuses its power despite all the evidence to the contrary, it’s not just the government you want to give backdoor access to your phone. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/111 "2014-09-29T01:52:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Cite? My cite is the several dozen threads where you’ve argued about this. > [@](#): > > I expect liberals to cheer for the entity that exists to protect and serve them over the entity that exists to exploit and profit from them. If it were doing that, they might cheer for it. > [@Smapti](#): > > If you honestly believe that Apple and Google have your best interests in mind more so than the US government does I don’t think they’re acting with the public’s best interest in mind. I think they might be trying to please their consumer base. And I think it’s possible Apple’s actions will protect the public’s interest because the government has shown it won’t do that - and this lawsuit, unfortunately, is more proof of that. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/112 "2014-09-29T08:38:24Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You insist on calling me names as if name-calling suffices for an argument. Do you think I’ll be so shamed by a dirty name that I’ll concede to being wrong? But I didn’t call you a name did I? It wasn’t for lack of legitimate opportunity mind you but still, I didn’t do it and had you paid more than cursory attention to my post you would comprehend that. I said your “train of thought” was beloved of fascist states everywhere. And that is true. Yours is exactly the sort of mindset that they want to encourage. At no point did I call you a fascist. Hope that clears it up for you. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/113 "2014-09-29T09:40:36Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > [TRELAINE] Oh, really, you _must_ try harder; this is _too easy_! [/TRELAINE] > > I guess when you froth at the mouth about this issue, you’re expressing solidarity with your intellectual soulmate. And Santorum probably would use the intelligence apparatus for the kind of petty spying you’re so paranoid of. Liberals wouldn’t, because they don’t need to. You’re opposing liberals for using something they can be trusted with because you can’t trust conservatives with it, and therefore you make it easier for conservatives to get into power and abuse that something. You’re doing more to elect Santorum by opposing this program than I am by defending it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/114 "2014-09-29T09:44:52Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Never thought I’d see the day when people who claimed to be conservative cheered the expansion of government power. Then it happened in late 2001, and has snowballed since. It’s a disgusting sight to behold. Government power should be strictly limited to only that minimum needed to function within Constitutional boundaries. So conservatives want big government and liberals want corporations to help people break the law. And I’m the crazy one. ---
**Author:** ![JimNightshade](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jimnightshade/32/3354_2.png) [@JimNightshade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JimNightshade)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/115 "2014-09-29T09:59:12Z")
On behalf of all lurkers: Yes. Yes you are. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/116 "2014-09-29T10:25:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And Santorum probably would use the intelligence apparatus for the kind of petty spying you’re so paranoid of. Liberals wouldn’t [FDR wasn’t a liberal?](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/confirmed-the-us-census-b/) News to me… > [@Smapti](#): > > You’re opposing liberals for using something they can be trusted with What “something” is that? We’ve established that it isn’t the subject of this thread. In any case, you need to polish your rhetorical skills in order to better support the candidate who fits your ideology – get Slick for Rick! > [@Smapti](#): > > And I’m the crazy one. A glimmer of self-awareness peeks out. There may be hope for you yet… ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/117 "2014-09-29T10:25:35Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > But I didn’t call you a name did I? > > It wasn’t for lack of legitimate opportunity mind you but still, I didn’t do it and had you paid more than cursory attention to my post you would comprehend that. > > I said your “train of thought” was beloved of fascist states everywhere. And that is true. Yours is exactly the sort of mindset that they want to encourage. At no point did I call you a fascist. > > Hope that clears it up for you. Although given this, it’s hardly “name-calling” to label one who believes such things a fascist. Just like it’s not name-calling to label the grand wizard of the KKK a racist, or Stalin a communist. Simply because a political label becomes undesirable does not negate its use as a label. **Smapti** is a fascist, in the same way I’m a liberal, **adaher** is a conservative. Even if I don’t self-identify as such. Now, you want _name-calling_, and there’s plenty we could offer [in the pit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=723924&page=15). But calling him a fascist is not that. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/118 "2014-09-29T11:16:20Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Does anyone really believe they will produce an encryption that the government won’t be able to bypass when needed? Given the resources the government has, it seems highly unlikely. It is absolutely mathematically possible to produce encrypted data that it would take an adversary more computational than exists in the entire universe to decrypt. This makes a lot of assumptions though, it assumes it is perfect and that the NSA hasn’t weaseled errors into the most used algorithms or standards or software(we know they have tried). We know from Snowden’s leaks for example they couldn’t crack Tor routing, so they were attacking it indirectly. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/119 "2014-09-29T11:17:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Santorum Dude, you’ve got Santorum on your post. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2014, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754/120 "2014-09-29T11:24:55Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > [FDR wasn’t a liberal?](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/confirmed-the-us-census-b/) News to me… Well, that settles it - the Second War Powers Act should definitely be repealed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-fbi-right-in-decrying-the-stronger-encryption-about-to-come-to-smartphones/699754.md?page=7)