# Is the flavor of a cake determined by the bread part or the icing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 27, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740 "2015-02-27T01:32:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sich\_hinaufwinden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@sich\_hinaufwinden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sich_hinaufwinden)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/41 "2015-02-28T18:31:21Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > A bit surprised that it got this far without someone pointing out that the icing on a cake is just the icing on the cake. Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is only the case when the next person to taste the cake is an opponent other than the goalkeeper. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/42 "2015-02-28T18:46:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Seriously, what is wrong with you people? Where are my damn recipes? On review, my grandmother’s cookbook doesn’t actually have any chocolate cake recipes. Would you prefer a recipe for chocolate gobs, or a rhubarb cobbler, instead? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/43 "2015-02-28T18:56:17Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > A bit surprised that it got this far without someone pointing out that the icing on a cake is just the icing on the cake. We have, strangely, gotten this far _with_ people pointing out that the icing on a cake is actually the frosting on the bread. 😕 & :dubious: (And don’t get me started on those idiots that refer to “cake” as “sponge”! ““Cake” Boss” my ass!!11!) CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/44 "2015-02-28T19:09:02Z")
Fine: chocolate cake, without chocolate, with mayonnaise. 2 c. flour 2/3 c. cocoa powder 1 ½ tsp. baking soda ¼ tsp. baking powder 1 2/3 c. sugar 4 eggs 1 tsp. vanilla 1 c. mayonnaise 1 1/3 c. water Preheat oven to 360. Line two cake pans with waxed paper. In a medium bowl, combine flour, cocoa, baking soda, and baking powder. In a large bowl, beat sugar, eggs, and vanilla until light and fluffy. At low speed, beat in mayonnaise. Add flour mixture gradually, alternating with water, beginning and ending with flour. Pour into pans, bake 30-35 minutes or until done. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/45 "2015-02-28T19:24:07Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Eggs! Eggs are in chocolate cake. And milk! Oh, goody! And wheat! That’s nutrition! \*\*Skald \*\*is great! Give us the chocolate cake! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![sich\_hinaufwinden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@sich\_hinaufwinden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sich_hinaufwinden)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/46 "2015-02-28T19:59:03Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Fine: chocolate cake, without chocolate, with mayonnaise. > > 2 c. flour > 2/3 c. cocoa powder > 1 ½ tsp. baking soda > ¼ tsp. baking powder > 1 2/3 c. sugar > 4 eggs > 1 tsp. vanilla > 1 c. mayonnaise > 1 1/3 c. water > Preheat oven to 360. Line two cake pans with waxed paper. In a medium bowl, combine flour, cocoa, baking soda, and baking powder. In a large bowl, beat sugar, eggs, and vanilla until light and fluffy. At low speed, beat in mayonnaise. Add flour mixture gradually, alternating with water, beginning and ending with flour. Pour into pans, bake 30-35 minutes or until done. My large bowl is dirty and I’m fresh out of dish soap. Can I substitute a very large bowl instead? (Within reason of course.) Would it still be a real chocolate cake? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/47 "2015-02-28T20:01:49Z")
> [@sich\_hinaufwinden](#): > > My large bowl is dirty and I’m fresh out of dish soap. Can I substitute a very large bowl instead? (Within reason of course.) > > Would it still be a real chocolate cake? That is NOT a large bowl, that is a BASIN! Get your shit together! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/48 "2015-02-28T20:23:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Fine: chocolate cake, without chocolate, with mayonnaise. > > 2 c. flour > 2/3 c. cocoa powder > 1 ½ tsp. baking soda > ¼ tsp. baking powder > 1 2/3 c. sugar > 4 eggs > 1 tsp. vanilla > 1 c. mayonnaise > 1 1/3 c. water > Preheat oven to 360. Line two cake pans with waxed paper. In a medium bowl, combine flour, cocoa, baking soda, and baking powder. In a large bowl, beat sugar, eggs, and vanilla until light and fluffy. At low speed, beat in mayonnaise. Add flour mixture gradually, alternating with water, beginning and ending with flour. Pour into pans, bake 30-35 minutes or until done. I tried this recipe exactly as written, except I substituted Bisquick for the flour, M&M’s for the cocoa and diced ham for the mayonnaise. Terrible recipe, would not try again. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/49 "2015-02-28T20:36:55Z")
Wait, were they peanut M&Ms? Because that’s your problem right there. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/50 "2015-02-28T22:36:13Z")
1. It’s frosting not icing. 2. Bread? BREAD? It’s not bread. Ask Marie Antoinette. But at least you didn’t call it “sponge” that that twat Gordon Ramsey _SHUDDER_ 3. The cake part determines the flavor, not the frosting. It is known. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/51 "2015-02-28T23:39:57Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > 1. It’s frosting not icing. > > 2. Bread? BREAD? It’s not bread. Ask Marie Antoinette. But at least you didn’t call it “sponge” that that twat Gordon Ramsey _SHUDDER_ > > 3. The cake part determines the flavor, not the frosting. It is known. Of course it’s bread. Anyone who had made both cakes and bread can attest to that. It’s just very sweet and flavorful bread. What are you, some kind of Welshman? ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/52 "2015-03-01T00:00:07Z")
Since cocoa is apparently not chocolate, and the frosting flavor isn’t allowed into the naming, if I made a cocoa cake, with white chocolate icing would I be allowed to call it chocolate cake? What If I took that cake, and mushed it up in a bowl with Chocolate ice cream, is it CC then? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/53 "2015-03-01T17:17:16Z")
See, I assumed Skald was being evil and saying something he didn’t believe about cocoa-cake not being chocolate as an example how absurd it is to call yellow cake with chocolate icing “chocolate cake.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/54 "2015-03-07T18:44:08Z")
Chocolate cake is chocolate cake before the icing (or frosting) has been applied. If it isn’t chocolate cake before that stage, it will never be chocolate cake, regardless of the flavoring of the paint job. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/55 "2015-03-07T19:39:43Z")
Cocoa is chocolate. Chocolate is toxic to dogs, cocoa is on the list of chocolate things that are toxic, ipso fido, cocoa is chocolate. Also, if you say chocolate cake it usually means chocolate (or cocoa) cake with chocolate frosting. If the frosting is a different flavor then you’d clarify but adding the flavor or the frosting, such as chocolate cake with vanilla frosting or cellular peptide cake with mint frosting. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Woodhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@Miss\_Woodhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Woodhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/56 "2015-03-07T19:54:25Z")
Cake is cake and frosting is frosting, therefore a chocolate cake would have the cake part be chocolate flavored and the flavor of the frosting would be immaterial. A yellow cake with chocolate frosting is, as stated, a yellow cake. It is not a chocolate cake because the _cake_ is not chocolate. I do not have recipes because apparently my chocolate cake recipe is not actually chocolate according to Lord Rhymer. Who wastes solid chocolate on cake? It doesn’t improve the texture or flavor to do so and if you melt it for cake you can’t make brownies with it. That’s just not reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/57 "2015-03-07T20:00:43Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Of course it’s bread. Anyone who had made both cakes and bread can attest to that. It’s just very sweet and flavorful bread. What are you, some kind of Welshman? I just don’t even know where to start in this thread. Chocolate is cocoa plus fat and sugar, it does not have to be cocoa fat. So if you made a Chiffon cake, then it’s chocolate cake. If it’s a sponge cake, well, OK, we can maybe allow the egg yolk fat to qualify, but you’re pushing it. Chocolate angel food can not exist. Because: Sponge cake contains whole eggs, and the bubbles are created only by whipping the egg whites. There is little or no added fat, and no other leavening. (Larger bubbles, very dry, falls if you stomp around.)\* Chiffon cake has added fat or oil, but also baking powder and/or soda. (Smaller bubbles, more tender, less dry, hard to make it fall.) Angel cake has only egg whites, and I mean nearly ONLY egg whites. Again, bubbles are created by whipping the egg whites. There is just enough sugar for flavor and flour/cornstarch to make it not a meringue. (Mainly bubbles, extremely dry, falls if you breathe in the vicinity.) Bread is an entirely other thing with little or no eggs and is definitely leavened with yeast\*\*. If you developed the gluten in any of the cakes, you’d get cakeleather. If you didn’t develop the gluten in bread, you’d get breadleather. Bread can be sweet but it can not be cake. Likewise, adding strawberries or zucchini to a spice cake does not make it bread. And as somebody alluded, but failed to fully clarify, icing is melty and drippy and flat, usually made of water, sugar, and flavoring; there is no fat in it. Frosting is fluffy and usually colored and flavored; it contains butter or shortening. Fondant is pasty and sweet may be colored but is seldom flavored at all; I have no idea what it’s made of. All straight now? \*Y’all leave our Gordy alone, hear? \*\*“Friendship cake” is a common sweet bread which many people refer to as cake. It is not. Because it has yeast. Y’all quit! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/58 "2015-03-07T20:36:11Z")
TruCelt, take your facts back to Ottawa where they belong. Facts are just a crutch for people who don’t carry broadswords. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/59 "2015-03-07T20:44:02Z")
> [@Miss\_Woodhouse](#): > > Cake is cake and frosting is frosting, therefore a chocolate cake would have the cake part be chocolate flavored and the flavor of the frosting would be immaterial. A yellow cake with chocolate frosting is, as stated, a yellow cake. It is not a chocolate cake because the _cake_ is not chocolate. > > I do not have recipes because apparently my chocolate cake recipe is not actually chocolate according to Lord Rhymer. > > Who wastes solid chocolate on cake? It doesn’t improve the texture or flavor to do so and if you melt it for cake you can’t make brownies with it. That’s just not reasonable. Stop calling me Lord Skald. This isn’t an Evil!Skald thread. You’ll notice I haven’t threatened to release the bees. Anyway, my position is that a chocolate cake is classed as such based on the bread part, not the icing. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740/60 "2015-03-07T20:45:33Z")
> [@Miss\_Woodhouse](#): > > Cake is cake and frosting is frosting, therefore a chocolate cake would have the cake part be chocolate flavored and the flavor of the frosting would be immaterial. A yellow cake with chocolate frosting is, as stated, a yellow cake. It is not a chocolate cake because the _cake_ is not chocolate. > > I do not have recipes because apparently my chocolate cake recipe is not actually chocolate according to Lord Rhymer. > > Who wastes solid chocolate on cake? It doesn’t improve the texture or flavor to do so and if you melt it for cake you can’t make brownies with it. That’s just not reasonable. Stop calling me Lord Skald. This isn’t an Evil!Skald thread. You’ll notice I haven’t threatened to release the bees. Call me Lord or Sir again and I will murder Aragorn. Anyway, my position is that a chocolate cake is classed as such based on the bread part, not the icing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-flavor-of-a-cake-determined-by-the-bread-part-or-the-icing/713740.md?page=4)