# Is The Gay Marriage Debate Over? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472 "2014-05-02T00:00:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/1 "2014-05-02T00:00:53Z")
[Maggie Gallagher (NOM) seems to think so:](http://maggiegallagher.com/2014/05/cooper-mozilla-firefox/) > [@](#): > > The rapid collapse of opposition to gay marriage we are witnessing did not just happen, and it was not inevitable. But it is… > > Hiding or pretending is not going to help us, now. We have to face the truth… > > Here’s the truth: Two percent of the American population, worked a cultural revolution. Hats off to them… I’m inclined to see this as a simple recognition of reality (albeit heavily tinged with self-pitying victimhood posturing). However, I doubt the situation is quite as good (from the pro-equality perspective) as this statement makes it sound. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/2 "2014-05-02T00:14:26Z")
In my opinion, it’s not over until discrimination against gay couples is as rare and unacceptable as discrimination against interracial couples. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/3 "2014-05-02T00:15:44Z")
Politically it’s over. There’ll be some final gasps but this thing flipped in a hurry. And about time, too. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/4 "2014-05-02T00:16:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In my opinion, it’s not over until discrimination against gay couples is as rare and unacceptable as discrimination against interracial couples. Agreed. There are still lots of states with constitutional amendments forbidding SSM. Unless the Supremes rule it is the law of the land, it is not going to be the law of the land across all 50 states for a decade or more. And as long as it’s not, the debate rages on. ---
**Author:** ![Shooby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Shooby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shooby)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/5 "2014-05-02T00:23:10Z")
But in the meantime, we should get some popcorn and enjoy the feeble death throes of the bigots as this wave of equality pulls them under. Yum! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/6 "2014-05-02T00:23:37Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I’m inclined to see this as a simple recognition of reality (albeit heavily tinged with self-pitying victimhood posturing). However, I doubt the situation is quite as good (from the pro-equality perspective) as this statement makes it sound. Well, having people like Gallagher say it’s over does help it be over. That was an interesting read. She comes off as way more introspective than I’ve ever heard from her (granted that lots of what I’ve heard from her has been soundbites). I think she’s seeing a possibility of SSM being the new abortion, in that some religions are just assumed to be anti-abortion and that’s that. But I don’t know if that will really fly. Certainly, if people stop trying to pass laws against SSM or amendments and stop talking about it, people like me aren’t likely to care what they think or do within their own churches. But marriage just isn’t like abortion. it’s a public institution, and the intersection of church and state creates the conflict int he first place. (The state has no need to be involved with abortion, but the nature of marriage is state-sanctioned.) In any case, it was an interesting read. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/7 "2014-05-02T00:28:32Z")
“Over” is a little strong, but it does seem to have hit the point where its hard to see it going anywhere but forward, and that probably pretty quickly. Opposition is cratering and increasingly concentrated amongst older co-horts, even conservative Southern states poll at 50-50 in favour, recent SCOTUS cases have been in supporters favour and, perhaps most importantly, there are an ever increasing number of gay-couples living openly, making gay marriage normative even in relatively conservative parts of the country. But there are still a decent number of anti-miscegenists out there 40+ years after _Loving v Virginia_ (my favoritely named SCOTUS case), so I’m sure in fifty or sixty years there will still be a couple hold-out homophobes out there. But I think gay marriage has hit the “its all over but the shouting” phase. Still a lot of work to do, but the outcome isn’t in doubt anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/8 "2014-05-02T00:31:21Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The question now on the table is: will orthodox Christianity (and other traditional faiths), be stigmatized and marginalized as the equivalent of racism in the American public square? Will Biblical morality be wiped out as an acceptable public position in America? I certainly hope so. I’d prefer not to be stoned to death for picking up sticks or wearing a polyester/cotton shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/9 "2014-05-02T01:23:54Z")
A hell of a lot more than “two percent” of the population participated in this revolution! Nice try at minimizing or sidelining it, but, no, if two percent could work a real revolution, Occupy Wall Street and its supporters would have toppled the stock market. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/10 "2014-05-02T01:38:30Z")
Well, hats off to Maggie Gallagher - even the guy who defended her precious Prop 8 has changed his mind on the issue, and yet she remains optimistic. Deluded? Absolutely, but you can’t say she doesn’t hang in a fight. Maybe she can hang out with the last remaining people who think the Earth is flat. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/11 "2014-05-02T02:41:53Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > But there are still a decent number of anti-miscegenists out there 40+ years after _Loving v Virginia_ (my favoritely named SCOTUS case), so I’m sure in fifty or sixty years there will still be a couple hold-out homophobes out there. A pretty large number [some places](http://www.salon.com/2011/04/07/poll_mississippi_interracial_marriage/): > [@](#): > > When usual Republican primary voters in the state of Mississippi were asked if they think interracial marriage should be legal or illegal, a whopping 46 percent said it should be illegal, compared to 40 percent who think it should be legal. The remaining 14 percent were unsure. What’s happened with opposition to interracial marriage is that it reached the point of becoming an “unspeakable” belief; even people who hold it don’t dare say so in public, it’s too embarrassing and the backlash too large. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/12 "2014-05-02T02:47:55Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Well, having people like Gallagher say it’s over does help it be over. Having forgotten the name mentioned in the OP, I read this sentence and thought to myself, “How does that help? Is he going to hit it with his Sledge-o-Matic?” ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/13 "2014-05-02T02:53:58Z")
It makes me really sad that so many of you feel like the debate is over. [Map1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_laws_pertaining_to_homosexual_relationships_and_expression.svg). [Map2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_same-sex_adoption_laws.svg). Looking at that, how can anyone feel the debate is even close to being over? There are still dozens of countries where it’s illegal to even be gay, let alone the vast majority do not let a gay marriage be recognized or allow gay adoption. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/14 "2014-05-02T02:57:34Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > It makes me really sad that so many of you feel like the debate is over. [Map1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_laws_pertaining_to_homosexual_relationships_and_expression.svg). [Map2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_same-sex_adoption_laws.svg). Looking at that, how can anyone feel the debate is even close to being over? They were speaking Americentrically, on a mostly American board. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/15 "2014-05-02T02:59:13Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They were speaking Americentrically, on a mostly American board. About an article that was explicitly about the us. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/16 "2014-05-02T03:23:14Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > About an article that was explicitly about the us. Yes, I assume the OP was talking about the US. Still, the debate is definitely not over. Anyone who thinks so lives in an echo chamber. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/17 "2014-05-02T03:32:38Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Having forgotten the name mentioned in the OP, I read this sentence and thought to myself, “How does that help? Is he going to hit it with his Sledge-o-Matic?” I could see this working! ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/18 "2014-05-02T04:42:56Z")
I have to say that they still don’t get it. Is religious morality going to be marginalized and denigrated? No more than it has been already. The difference is not in how the non-religious regard religious morality, the difference is in the lowered ability of the religious to impose their morality on everyone else. I, for one, am perfectly willing to have this woman think I am a hell-bound pervert, as long as she has no ability to enshrine her opinion into law or public policy. That’s what they are losing, and that’s what they can’t stand. They don’t care what you think or I think, they only care about being able to make us follow what they think. And by “they” I mean the members of any politically motivated religious movement, whether Christian, Jewish or Muslim (or Hindu or Buddhist or…). My only message to them is: go your way in peace, and leave me the hell alone. ---
**Author:** ![Kdidds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8797f3/32.png) [@Kdidds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kdidds)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/19 "2014-05-02T04:59:58Z")
It’s ridiculous and excessive for those against prop 8 in California advocating for same sex marriage. In California, same sex couples already enjoyed all the legal benefits in domestic partnerships that married couples received. Prop 8 was unnecessarily excessive and a waste of the supreme courts time. That’s the one dirty little secret that they try to keep secret. There was no additional rights earned by prop 8 that the same sex couples didn’t already have in dps. ---
**Author:** ![Kdidds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8797f3/32.png) [@Kdidds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kdidds)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/20 "2014-05-02T05:06:13Z")
I’m all for advocating universal equality in domestic partnerships for same sex couples. But attempting to redefine the term “marriage” just for the sake of legislation is excessive. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472.md?page=2)