# Is The Gay Marriage Debate Over? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472 "2014-05-02T00:00:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/521 "2014-05-06T19:11:01Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > What’s the “downside” again? I keep missing it. Having the word, which is a symbol for a foundational institution to our society, being watered down. And if you care to search those other threads, the claim that SSM would lead to other contortions of the institution was also consistently pooh-poohed. But we can now see that the concerns of I and a few others on this board—not to mention Justice Scalia—[were not fantastical:](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/25/editorial-throuple-in-paradise/) > [@](#): > > Well, that didn’t take long. Doll, Brynn and Kitten Young, a lesbian trio, have declared themselves the world’s first “throuple.” The Massachusetts women claim to be “married” and await their first child. Massachusetts doesn’t recognize “throuple marriage” yet, but the year is young. When the Supreme Court eviscerated authentic marriage last year, this was foretold. There’s already an organized movement, led by college professors, for what might be called “grouple” marriage. > > \ > > Justice Antonin Scalia warned of such mischief when his colleagues tossed out the Defense of Marriage Act. “By formally declaring anyone opposed to same-sex marriage an enemy of human decency,” he wrote in his dissent in United States v. Windsor, “the majority arms well every challenger to a state law restricting marriage to its traditional definition.” > > Justice Scalia predicted in 2003 that the majority decision in Lawrence v. Texas, striking down a law making sodomy ilegal, would become the battering ram to eliminate prohibitions on bigamy, same-sex marriage, adult incest, prostitution, bestiality and obscenity, among other things. Tell me, is just another thing to be unconcerned about? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/522 "2014-05-06T19:11:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > When I was getting ready to move to Kentucky from Florida, I wanted to find out how racist the place still was. The internet is imperfect for such a study, but I figured that was the first place to start. This is 2006, mind you. > > Since I’m in an interracial marriage, that was the first thing I googled: “Interracial marriage Kentucky”. One of the first page hits was an ad for an office of psychiatry, treating disorders like homosexuality, bestiality, self-mutiliation, porn addiction, sex addiction, and interracial dating. > > The reality was thankfully not as awful as that hit would suggest. Three incidents of someone yelling racial epithets out of moving cars, and being asked if we wanted seperate checks every time we went to a restaurant. And I did have out, gay employees working with me who faced constant slights and weird reactions but didn’t feel like they were in danger. Glad to hear it wasn’t as bad as you thought it might be. I’m a little more jaded after being physically assaulted several times, one of which sent my BF and I to the hospital. I was just bruised up but his jaw was broken. That happened in Columbus Ohio, at the time thought of as ‘The Key West of the Midwest’. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/523 "2014-05-06T19:11:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But a marriage not comprised of man + woman, husband + wife, is like one hand clapping, it’l like an atom with electrons orbiting a nucleus filled with other electrons. It’s nonsensical. The weird thing is, you seem to be saying this as if it were evidence that your position is \*not \*rooted in homophobia. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/524 "2014-05-06T19:11:59Z")
Ah, the electromagnetism argument, proving that homosexuality is wrong. magellan is clearly an acolyte of Chibuihem Amalaha. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/525 "2014-05-06T19:13:37Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This is hilarious. There is not one—not one—benefit that OS couples enjoy that I do not want extended to SS couples. I simply want them to do it through a different mechanism than you and others here. Call it a civll union or whatever the hell else you want and we’d be on the same side. I don’t care to be on the same side as people that want to reserve the right to say “My marriage is real-Your marriage is not”, because whatever words you wish to label SSM, the only thing it will mean is “fake marriage.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/526 "2014-05-06T19:14:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The downside is letting the gays use a word that implies they’re normal. That’s it. > > Something bad might result from that someday, he claims, even if he can’t think of what that might be, and can’t acknowledge that \*real \*bad things happen \*today \*if we don’t. More bullshit from you. Since you indicate here that you do, in fact, recall those other threads you have participated in, how about you do the honorable thing and relay my position in its entirety. Not that you really have to answer that. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/527 "2014-05-06T19:16:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t care to be on the same side as people that want to reserve the right to say “My marriage is real-Your marriage is not”, because whatever words you wish to label SSM, the only thing it will mean is “fake marriage.” And we have yet another admission that its not about the rights and privileges. It’s about grabbing onto the coattails of a revered institution and hoping to to be showered by its light. Yep. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/528 "2014-05-06T19:19:37Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And we have yet another admission that its not about the rights and privileges. It’s about grabbing onto the coattails of a revered institution and hoping to to be showered by its light. It fits well with your earlier admission that opposing SSM doesn’t have anything to do with protecting marriage, and is just an excuse to exclude people from it whom you don’t think measure up. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/529 "2014-05-06T19:21:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The weird thing is, you seem to be saying this as if it were evidence that your position is \*not \*rooted in homophobia. So now, understanding that a marriage is constituted of a husband and a wife is homophobic? Sigh. Come on man, the shark has already been jumped. No need to gild the silly. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/530 "2014-05-06T19:21:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Then the LGBT community is a cheap date. Bill Clinton has never failed to get a warm reception from the community wherever he’s gone, and he’s never failed to raise big money for candidates from the gay community. > > “Lesser of two evils” is what independents vote for. the gay community is overwhelmingly Democrat, and their support is vocal and enthusiastic and backed by a lot of campaign donations. Opinion is divided. For most American gays, DOMA was irritating, but had no substantial new effect on their daily lives. For me, it was the specific impetus to emigrate, so I bear a strong animus toward him and while I understand why he did what he did, I have no use for him at all. That doesn’t mean I can vote for a republican, but post-DOMA I did reregister from Green to Democrat so I could have more say in the primaries. Not that it did any good. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/531 "2014-05-06T19:25:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > how about you do the honorable thing and relay my position in its entirety. I’ve already done so. It isn’t my fault that the position is not honorable. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/532 "2014-05-06T19:26:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It fits well with your earlier admission that opposing SSM doesn’t have anything to do with protecting marriage, and is just an excuse to exclude people from it whom you don’t think measure up. I’d also like to exclude lions from the _genus, Canis._ Guess that means that I’m anti-lion. A horrible lionophobe! How dare you, Magellan!!:mad: ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/533 "2014-05-06T19:27:25Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I’ve already done so. It isn’t my fault that the position is not honorable. Nope you didn’t. So what you say is (checks forum) an untruth. Unsurprisingly, you are once again in error. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/534 "2014-05-06T19:32:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So now, understanding that a marriage is constituted of a husband and a wife is homophobic? Whaddaya mean, _now_? The cornerstone of the argument I’ve been having with you for the last ten years has been that opposition to SSM is inherently homophobic. Are you literally just picking up on that _now_? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/535 "2014-05-06T19:32:36Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This is hilarious. There is not one—not one—benefit that OS couples enjoy that I do not want extended to SS couples. I simply want them to do it through a different mechanism than you and others here. Call it a civll union or whatever the hell else you want and we’d be on the same side. You’ve never proposed a _mechanism_. You’ve proposed a different name, and you swear up and down that that would be the only difference. > [@](#): > > But a marriage not comprised of man + woman, husband + wife, is like one hand clapping, it’l like an atom with electrons orbiting a nucleus filled with other electrons. It’s nonsensical. On the contrary: everybody understands what same-sex marriage is supposed to mean (even if they don’t approve) and most people in the U.S. now agree two men or two women should be able to get married. A word means what people agree it means. > [@magellan01](#): > > Having the word, which is a symbol for a foundational institution to our society, being watered down. How does admitting gay couples water down the word, and what does it matter if a word is watered down? > [@](#): > > Tell me, is just another thing to be unconcerned about? That depends. If you’re a conservative, it’s the end of the world, obviously. If you’re not, you may notice that three people saying something does not make it so. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/536 "2014-05-06T19:34:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So now, understanding that a marriage is constituted of a husband and a wife is homophobic? No. Understanding that a marriage is NOT constituted of two men or of two women is what is homophobic. There’s nothing wrong with recognizing heterosexual marriage, or the importance of that specific kind of marriage in the history of the institution. The problem is excluding same-sex unions from it. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/537 "2014-05-06T19:36:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Having the word, which is a symbol for a foundational institution to our society, being watered down. > > And if you care to search those other threads, the claim that SSM would lead to other contortions of the institution was also consistently pooh-poohed. But we can now see that the concerns of I and a few others on this board—not to mention Justice Scalia—[were not fantastical:](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/25/editorial-throuple-in-paradise/) > > Tell me, is just another thing to be unconcerned about? I’m completely unconcerned. You? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/538 "2014-05-06T19:38:52Z")
**m:** If you can actually point out a factual error in my summary, and not merely contempt, then please do so. But do keep in mind the extensive trail of searchable posts you’ve made, all to the same effect, ready for quoting by someone with enough time and boredom to show you. Do also keep in mind that a few of your most recent posts are absolutely indistinguishable from those that would be made by someone who really does think gays are not as fully human as straights, and are actually not even natural. Indistinguishable. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/539 "2014-05-06T19:50:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Having the word, which is a symbol for a foundational institution to our society, being watered down. Let’s explore that choice of words for a moment, shall we? Your argument is based on a word having a meaning that, unlike most any other word, can’t be changed. “Watered down”. You’ve used “diluted” in other posts. I’m sure you know that means something of greater value, or greater validity, is being cheapened by mixing it with something of lesser value, or lesser validity. Let’s pause there and ask: Is that how you mean those terms? > [@](#): > > Tell me, is just another thing to be unconcerned about? Yes. Why wouldn’t it be? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/540 "2014-05-06T19:55:45Z")
I was in the middle of writing the exact same thing. The phrase suggests that same-sex relationships are somehow not as good as heterosexual ones. Expanding the meaning of a word does not automatically water it down - those are different concepts. But the implication is that if gay people can get married, somehow marriage is no longer as good or special as it used to be. Why is that so? The emotional and financial and other benefits of marriage aren’t contingent on the exclusivity of marriage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472.md?page=28)