# Is The Gay Marriage Debate Over? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472 "2014-05-02T00:00:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/41 "2014-05-02T12:04:17Z")
Let’s put it this way: do you want to win converts, or do you want to burn heretics? Sounds to me like evangelists have nothing on some of you folks when it comes to extreme self-righteousness. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/42 "2014-05-02T12:12:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Anyway, the point I was making is that if we can all be civilized, the debate is indeed over. If the victors decide to act as stupid as many of them seem bent on, then they’ll find that things don’t go the way they imagined. SSM is one thing. You’re right - those who opposed SSM were ever so civilized about keeping people out of their partners’ hospital rooms, and trying to make sure they couldn’t adopt children, or have any of the numerous rights straight married people do. It was like kicking someone in the teeth, but politely. For all the right reasons. Fuck you. And I don’t care that this isn’t the Pit - I’ll gladly take a mod warning for that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/43 "2014-05-02T12:21:29Z")
So be the crazy fringe minority if it makes you happy. And you are in the minority. Not on SSM, of course, but on this whole wreaking vengeance on the other side things you’ve got going. Most normal people recognize SSM as the right thing to do, but respect that others might not agree. If you aren’t down with that, then why are you even in Great Debates when this issue comes up? Only the Pit can satisfy you given where your head is right now on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/44 "2014-05-02T12:25:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Let’s put it this way: do you want to win converts, or do you want to burn heretics? I don’t give a shit whether someone is converted or burning with impotent rage over SSM. I don’t care what you, or anyone else thinks about the subject. What I want is very simple. State and Federal recognition of SSM as part of the basic definition of Marriage. Whether you’re converted or burned at the stake is entirely up to you. BTW, there isn’t jack squat that I can say that’s going to trump God’s Word, so let’s not pretend that my actions are going to convert some Bible Thumping Troglodyte. As an aside, continuing to oppose something does not fit into any standard definition of surrender. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/45 "2014-05-02T12:27:06Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Let’s put it this way: do you want to win converts, or do you want to burn heretics? Sounds to me like evangelists have nothing on some of you folks when it comes to extreme self-righteousness. Who is being burned? Who is harmed by SSM legalization and its advocacy? This all sounds like whining from the losing side. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/46 "2014-05-02T12:32:34Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So be the crazy fringe minority if it makes you happy. And you are in the minority. Not on SSM, of course, but on this whole wreaking vengeance on the other side things you’ve got going. Most normal people recognize SSM as the right thing to do, but respect that others might not agree. If you aren’t down with that, then why are you even in Great Debates when this issue comes up? Only the Pit can satisfy you given where your head is right now on this issue. I don’t know what you think “wreaking vengeance” is. Nobody is going around carrying out lynchings. I’m just pointing out that assholes are asshole, no matter how polite they were about denying other peoples’ rights. And that it’s a little rich if they expect to be treated with the utmost care now. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/47 "2014-05-02T12:36:08Z")
> [@Kdidds](#): > > Name me one right that prop 8 afforded that same sex couples weren’t already enjoying in dps? There are several actually but I’ll name just one as you asked. Domestic partnerships do not give you tax protection for inheritance at the federal level but marriage does. That was the while point of the Windsor case. Is that one sufficient? It saved Edie Windsor hundreds of thousands of dollars. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/48 "2014-05-02T12:40:51Z")
All I’m asking is, is it okay to believe that marriage is between a man and a woman or is this belief beyond the pale? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/49 "2014-05-02T12:45:30Z")
What the hell. I’ll give you one more. I’m feeling generous today. I’m a man in California and was born here. Let’s say I meet a person who is from another country who is here on a student visa and we fall in love. If I am married to them, they don’t face deportation when the visa is up. Not so for a domestic partnership. If you come back, I can give you some more. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/50 "2014-05-02T12:47:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Respect has gone out the window. How very concerned of you. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/51 "2014-05-02T12:53:26Z")
Since this is great debates, respect and civility aren’t just a concern. It’s the rules of the forum. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/52 "2014-05-02T13:01:17Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Yes, and Gallagher’s fear is clearly that opposition to gay marriage is headed into the same category. She gets downright passive-aggressive about it: > . Its actually not as rare as you might think. Few support anti miscegenation laws but its not unusual for people to still be willing to express opposition to interracial relationships. So if you are expecting opposition to Ssm to be beyond the pale you’ll be disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/53 "2014-05-02T13:03:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > All I’m asking is, is it okay to believe that marriage is between a man and a woman or is this belief beyond the pale? I’d call it denying reality. You are perfectly free to attempt it. I suspect it will work as well as insisting that Romney’s really winning despite what the actual polls say. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/54 "2014-05-02T13:07:19Z")
And that’s what she means by surrender. Acknowledging reality while still believing what she believes ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/55 "2014-05-02T13:08:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > All I’m asking is, is it okay to believe that marriage is between a man and a woman or is this belief beyond the pale? It’s as okay to believe that gay marriage is wrong as it is to believe that interracial marriage is wrong, in my opinion. Some people still believe that. There’s no sanctions or punishments for beliefs. You might get criticized if you say it – but that’s a risk for saying anything. And criticism isn’t punishment, or harm, or ‘burning at the stake’, etc. It’s just criticism. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/56 "2014-05-02T13:11:23Z")
A better analogy is interfaith marriages actually ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/57 "2014-05-02T13:19:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s as okay to believe that gay marriage is wrong as it is to believe that interracial marriage is wrong, in my opinion. Some people still believe that. There’s no sanctions or punishments for beliefs. You might get criticized if you say it – but that’s a risk for saying anything. And criticism isn’t punishment, or harm, or ‘burning at the stake’, etc. It’s just criticism. Okay so we aren’t talking about people needing to be fired if they say they don’t support Ssm ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/58 "2014-05-02T13:20:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > A better analogy is interfaith marriages actually No it isn’t. Faith is belief system. Race and sexuality are innate. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/59 "2014-05-02T13:22:03Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > All I’m asking is, is it okay to believe that marriage is between a man and a woman or is this belief beyond the pale? I’m not the thought police, I don’t care what you think about SSM, interfaith marriage, interrracial marriage, divorce, adoption, abortion, child pornography or the death penalty. The most I can do about it is to declare my own individual opinion on your stance, if I find your stance reprehensible, I also have the right to shun you, since I have freedom of action. Once laws and protections are in place (e.g. interracial marriage) it’s Mind over Matter. I don’t mind, because you don’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/60 "2014-05-02T13:32:37Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Okay so we aren’t talking about people needing to be fired if they say they don’t support Ssm If someone proclaims, in their workplace, “interracial marriage is WRONG”, there’s an excellent chance they would be disciplined. In some workplaces, they might even get fired – that can be a pretty hostile statement. Their beliefs don’t matter, but if they’re jerks in the workplace? Jerks in the workplace might get fired. I don’t see how same-sex marriage would be any different. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472.md?page=4)