# Is The Gay Marriage Debate Over? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472 "2014-05-02T00:00:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/161 "2014-05-03T05:17:35Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Oh, are you concerned about the cause? > > Out of curiosity, did you ever comment on whether it was bigotry to be against interracial marriage in 1996? How about in 2014? it CAN be bigoted, but it isn’t always. Are you comfortable calling a black woman who is against interracial relationships a racist? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/162 "2014-05-03T05:19:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > it CAN be bigoted, but it isn’t always. Are you comfortable calling a black woman who is against interracial relationships a racist? Yes. The whole ‘White women should stop stealing our men’ meme is nothing but racism. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/163 "2014-05-03T05:21:40Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Bigotry doesn’t become so, or cease to be so, when a calendar ticks over to a particular year. It is also not some kind of popularity contest, in which something only counts as bigotry when not very many people support it. It is theoretically possible for 100% of Americans to be bigots. I agree. Whether something is bigoted can be determined objectively. But if you want to change minds, you don’t hound the bigots, and almost everyone knows that when the bigots are in the majority. Right now, I guarantee you that 99% of us are bigoted about something, and future Americans will self-righteously shake their heads at us and lament our ignorance. At some point, what that issue is will become plain, and being the enlightened person you are, you’ll jump on the PC train sooner than the majority of us. Bully for you. Doesn’t make you morally superior to the rest of us. > [@](#): > > Your complaint that it is not okay to call people bigots sounds very much like the sort of political-correctness language policing that liberals often get in trouble for. It’s an eliminationist term, because society’s goal is to eradicate bigotry. So it should be used carefully, because if you’re following your own advice to its logical conclusion, 100 million Americans should have no role in civilized society. Shall the purges begin now, or are you waiting for the polls to hit 65%? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/164 "2014-05-03T05:21:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > it CAN be bigoted, but it isn’t always. Are you comfortable calling a black woman who is against interracial relationships a racist? Yes. Especially if she says I stole a fine black man. (Which I totally did.) ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/165 "2014-05-03T05:23:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Right now, I guarantee you that 99% of us are bigoted about something, and future Americans will self-righteously shake their heads at us and lament our ignorance. How very telling. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/166 "2014-05-03T05:23:27Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Yes. The whole ‘White women should stop stealing our men’ meme is nothing but racism. THAT is a bigoted way to oppose interracial marriage. How about the concern that a relationship between a white man and a black woman is inherently unequal due to social realities? Is that bigoted? I think some might even call that view progressive. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/167 "2014-05-03T05:24:31Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > How very telling. You are. YOu just don’t know what it is you’re bigoted about yet. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/168 "2014-05-03T05:28:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > THAT is a bigoted way to oppose interracial marriage. > > How about the concern that a relationship between a white man and a black woman is inherently unequal due to social realities? Is that bigoted? I think some might even call that view progressive. A concern is one thing, being flat out against interracial relationships is bigoted. Hell, I have concerns about being in a same sex relationship. It may not be unequal, but we are at a high risk in many areas of prejudice and outright physical violence. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/169 "2014-05-03T05:29:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > THAT is a bigoted way to oppose interracial marriage. > > How about the concern that a relationship between a white man and a black woman is inherently unequal due to social realities? Is that bigoted? I think some might even call that view progressive. There’s nothing progressive about telling people who they should and shouldn’t be allowed to marry. “Social realities” my ass. “Oh, I don’t have anything against black people, but if you have children think of how difficult their lives will be due to the social realities!” ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/170 "2014-05-03T05:32:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s an eliminationist term, because society’s goal is to eradicate bigotry. So it should be used carefully, because if you’re following your own advice to its logical conclusion, 100 million Americans should have no role in civilized society. We are using the term ‘bigotry’ correctly when we refer to opposition to SSM. If we start applying to situations that aren’t bigotry feel free to lecture us on its careful usage. 100 Million American’s bigoted views have no place in our society. The people who hold those views can hang out with the rest of us so long as their actions stick to what we accept as legal. Bigoted opinions should be called out as such. I’m not sorry if it hurts bigoted peoples feelings. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/171 "2014-05-03T05:35:05Z")
THat’s been said a lot too. I don’t think that’s bigoted, although in this day and age I think being of mixed race is actually advantageous. That was not the case in 1980. Being of mixed race in 1980 actually did cause kids problems. Personally, I think a case can be made that refusing to date outside your race is bigoted. But you won’t find many people who would say that out loud because even if it’s true, it’s not helpful. The “Bigot” charge shuts down debate, it doesn’t further it. The arguments for gay marriage are compelling and persuasive. “You’re a filthy bigot” is not persuasive and it’s more likely to make the recipient of such abuse stop listening. As they should. Even bigots shouldn’t have to listen to morons. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/172 "2014-05-03T05:38:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Personally, I think a case can be made that refusing to date outside your race is bigoted. But you won’t find many people who would say that out loud because even if it’s true, it’s not helpful. The “Bigot” charge shuts down debate, it doesn’t further it. I disagree, as a general rule. Who you are attracted to may or may not come from a place of bigotry. I don’t personally find the vast majority of black guys attractive, not because I think any less of them, I just don’t have the physical attraction. However, I would be a bigot if I thought other white guys shouldn’t date black guys. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/173 "2014-05-03T05:38:53Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > A concern is one thing, being flat out against interracial relationships is bigoted. Hell, I have concerns about being in a same sex relationship. It may not be unequal, but we are at a high risk in many areas of prejudice and outright physical violence. And the “social realities” argument has been used against gays a lot. “Look how that kid is being bullied! Allowing kids to say they are gay opens them up to all this abuse!” They never seem to add the “from us!” part. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/174 "2014-05-03T05:40:29Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > And the “social realities” argument has been used against gays a lot. “Look how that kid is being bullied! Allowing kids to say they are gay opens them up to all this abuse!” They never seem to add the “from us!” part. I absolutely agree. But there are certain places that I still am careful how obvious it is that my partner and I are together. It’s an issue of safety. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/175 "2014-05-03T05:47:22Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I disagree, as a general rule. Who you are attracted to may or may not come from a place of bigotry. I don’t personally find the vast majority of black guys attractive, not because I think any less of them, I just don’t have the physical attraction. I can go along with that. YOu’re attracted to who you’re attracted to. But some people express a personal belief that they will not on principle. Perhaps their family wants them to marry someone from the “tribe”. As a Jew, I’ve faced pressure to marry only a Jew. A girl I worked with from El salvador wasn’t even progressing to dating Nicaraguans, much less non-Latinos. “I need to find a man from my country.” that’s not an issue of attraction. It is a personal choice, so at least for now it’s beyond the reach of the PC police, although I don’t expect that to be true forever. There’s always another dragon to slay in their world and I’m sure that one won’t be left to run free forever. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/176 "2014-05-03T05:50:03Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I absolutely agree. But there are certain places that I still am careful how obvious it is that my partner and I are together. It’s an issue of safety. Yeah, there are definitely places I would be uncomfortable going with my husband, too. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/177 "2014-05-03T05:50:04Z")
BTW, you’re all bigots for opposing multiple marriage. You want to marginalize and exclude bisexuals. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/178 "2014-05-03T05:50:14Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I can go along with that. YOu’re attracted to who you’re attracted to. But some people express a personal belief that they will not on principle. Perhaps their family wants them to marry someone from the “tribe”. As a Jew, I’ve faced pressure to marry only a Jew. A girl I worked with from El salvador wasn’t even progressing to dating Nicaraguans, much less non-Latinos. “I need to find a man from my country.” > > that’s not an issue of attraction. It is a personal choice, so at least for now it’s beyond the reach of the PC police, although I don’t expect that to be true forever. There’s always another dragon to slay in their world and I’m sure that one won’t be left to run free forever. I agree that that is bigotry to say “I won’t date anyone outside of X group”, just because. It’s a more benign form of it, it’s not like the same sex marriage issue where people are trying to stop people they don’t even know from relationships. (Let’s be honest, most people opposed to same sex marriage are opposed to people being gay at all). ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/179 "2014-05-03T05:51:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > BTW, you’re all bigots for opposing multiple marriage. You want to marginalize and exclude bisexuals. I don’t oppose it on principle, I mostly oppose it for legal purposes on logistics. Work out the logistics and I don’t care at all. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472/180 "2014-05-03T05:51:17Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Yeah, there are definitely places I would be uncomfortable going with my husband, too. I’m in an interracial marriage and I lived in Kentucky for a year. is there someplace worse? Didn’t deter us. And mostly it wasn’t a problem. Mostly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gay-marriage-debate-over/687472.md?page=10)