# Is the GMC commerical with a sub real or faked? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 11, 2015, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416 "2015-02-11T20:18:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/21 "2015-02-12T13:30:47Z")
I’m impressed by the sub’s location accuracy here: > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Here’s the rill dill: > > [USS HAWKBILL (SSN 666) Surfaces Through The Arctic Ice, SCICEX 1999](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CIvlBijfCc) > > So the commercial looks pretty accurate. I mean, those guys are close. Yeah you want to be close to see and experience it, but you don’t want to be so close as to be on the breaking ice. Robby thanks for all the technical info. As for polar bear watch, are there Marine Detachments on submarines? I’m guessing the guy sent out is the youngest private or PFC they have. Maybe a Lance Corporal. “Private Shmuckatelli, you have polar bear watch at 0530. Grab your parka, M-16, some gloves and a canteen, and we’ll relieve you in 2 hours.” And yeah, a 5.56mm round would only piss off the polar bear. Now, 3 30-round magazines might do a little damage… ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/22 "2015-02-12T14:59:17Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > …Robby thanks for all the technical info. As for polar bear watch, are there Marine Detachments on submarines? I’m guessing the guy sent out is the youngest private or PFC they have. Maybe a Lance Corporal. “Private Shmuckatelli, you have polar bear watch at 0530. Grab your parka, M-16, some gloves and a canteen, and we’ll relieve you in 2 hours.” We never had any Marines on board. Note that a submarine has a relatively small crew; you don’t really have room for unqualified (meaning “unqualified” in submarine operations) riders. It’s easier to train existing crew members in rifle marksmanship, so we just used seamen and petty officers from Deck Division. The same personnel are used for security in port. Also note that you only needed a polar bear watch when you had personnel out on the ice. We weren’t too worried about a bear breaking in… > [@Bullitt](#): > > …And yeah, a 5.56mm round would only piss off the polar bear. Now, 3 30-round magazines might do a little damage… Maybe, assuming they actually hit the polar bear… ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/23 "2015-02-12T16:30:03Z")
**robby** , if you’re allowed to answer, what were you doing on the ice? I thought a submarine’s main job was to track and kill other submarines. ---
**Author:** ![Ex\_Bubblehead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ex_bubblehead/32/3397_2.png) [@Ex\_Bubblehead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ex_Bubblehead)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/24 "2015-02-12T16:33:53Z")
> [@robby](#): > > …Secondly, only older submarines (such as the [_Sturgeon_-class](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon-class_submarine) and [_Permit_-class](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permit-class_submarine)) had fairwater planes that could be rotated to vertical to facilitate under-ice surfacing. Former Permit (Thresher) class rider here. The 594’s were not capable of under ice operations, they did not carry the requisite SONAR equipment, the sail was not reinforced, and the fairwater planes did not rotate to 90 degrees. Only the 637 class was so equipped. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/25 "2015-02-12T17:11:04Z")
> [@Ex\_Bubblehead](#): > > Former Permit (Thresher) class rider here. The 594’s were not capable of under ice operations, they did not carry the requisite SONAR equipment, the sail was not reinforced, and the fairwater planes did not rotate to 90 degrees. Only the 637 class was so equipped. My mistake. I knew that a number of old boats had done ICEXes, but it looks like the ones I was thinking of were indeed 637-class boats, like the USS _Puffer_ (SSN-652). For some reason, I was sure that some 594’s had gone as well, but I guess I was mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/26 "2015-02-12T17:25:12Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > **robby** , if you’re allowed to answer, what were you doing on the ice? I thought a submarine’s main job was to track and kill other submarines. The U.S. Navy has been conducting ICEXes for decades so that U.S. fast attack submarines can gain expertise in Arctic and under-ice operations. Part of this expertise is being able to surface through the ice, so that you can do this in an emergency (such as a fire or or other casualty requiring use of the emergency diesel generator). Once you have gone to the trouble of surfacing through the ice, you may as well go out and walk around some and enjoy some “ice liberty.” I remember that it was very cold (about 10 degrees below zero Fahrenheit), but with the sun shining and no wind, it was actually fairly pleasant. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/27 "2015-02-12T17:38:28Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > **robby** , if you’re allowed to answer, what were you doing on the ice? I thought a submarine’s main job was to track and kill other submarines. **robby** ’s answer is definitive, but I can address your deeper misconception. No special expertise, other than general military culture. (Retired AF, in my case). Almost every entity in the US military has a stated mission description. Like you say, an attack submarine is for stealthily killing other ships (surface or submarine). Of course, a modern attack sub is also a form of long-range Naval artillery, with precision-strike cruise missiles and such. But also, every entity in the US military has an unstated additional mission description, and in my experience it’s pretty uniform. You see it sometimes in job descriptions or mission assignments for personnel. It goes (after the end of the overt and obvious mission description) like this: “…and other duties as assigned by \.” An apprentice aircraft mechanic on the flight line of an Air Force Base may be temporarily detailed to pick up trash or tend to gardening around the base along with a dozen other lucky young Airmen. A squadron of high-performance combat-ready fighters may be painted up in exotic and impractical color schemes and permanently assigned to fly from town to town, giving air shows, for the sole purpose of public relations. A submarine is versatile enough, and available enough, to do more than lurk and pounce (or to only practice lurking and pouncing). Public relations, supporting scientific missions on the polar ice, exploring the possibilities of operating through ice… I’m just speculating, but I can imagine those reasons without trying. No military entity has JUST ONE mission. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/28 "2015-02-12T17:39:37Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > Yes, subs with tower mounted dive planes do rotate to vertical to breach the ice. The have to rotate in general, or otherwise they wouldn’t make very good dive planes 😉 It’s called the “under ice” position. It reduces the likelihood that the sail planes will bend when the sub surfaces through the ice. Also, it’s called the _sail_, not the _tower_. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/29 "2015-02-12T17:47:35Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > A submarine is versatile enough, and available enough, to do more than lurk and pounce (or to only practice lurking and pouncing). Public relations, supporting scientific missions on the polar ice, exploring the possibilities of operating through ice… I’m just speculating, but I can imagine those reasons without trying. I had thought that lurking and pouncing on the Soviet Northern Fleet and its ports, or rather \*preparing \*to lurk and pounce on them if needed, and letting them know we could, was the Navy’s primary reason to operate in the Arctic. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/30 "2015-02-12T17:57:47Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > What’s the reason a sub would need to break through the ice that would make it worth the risk? Wouldn’t we normally have at least a few subs under the ice that, if instructed to launch a Trident (or its modern equivalent), would breach the ice first and then launch their missle(s)? ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/31 "2015-02-12T18:44:23Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Wouldn’t we normally have at least a few subs under the ice that, if instructed to launch a Trident (or its modern equivalent), would breach the ice first and then launch their missle(s)? No, SSBNs don’t patrol under polar ice. There’s really no need, they can hit whatever targets they are assigned from open ocean. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/32 "2015-02-12T19:07:59Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It’s pretty close, though in the commercial the planes rotate back to horizontal once they’ve breached. That’s not shown in the real video, and seems counterproductive. You would want them in the vertical position when you dived again. That was what really kind of jarred me about the commercial. I mean, they got the dive planes being vertical for surfacing through the ice, but then leveled them out for some unfathomable reason toward the end of the commercial. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/33 "2015-02-12T19:12:02Z")
It looks cool. Not unfathomable at all. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/34 "2015-02-12T22:56:52Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > No, SSBNs don’t patrol under polar ice. There’s really no need, they can hit whatever targets they are assigned from open ocean. But at least some were capable of icebreaking and launching: > [@Cold War Submarines: The Design and Construction of U.S. and Soviet Submarines](#): > > On 25 August 1995, a [Typhoon SSBN](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon-class_submarine) surfaced at the North Pole, penetrating about eight feet of ice, and launched an [RSM-52](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-39_Rif) missile with ten unarmed warheads. [https://books.google.com/books?id=U86giz-cluoC&pg=PA195#v=onepage&q&f=false](https://books.google.com/books?id=U86giz-cluoC&pg=PA195#v=onepage&q&f=false) Not saying it would be strategically necessary, but the engineering needed to do that kind of thing doesn’t happen by accident, so it’s reasonable to assume that such capability was a mission and design requirement, not a happy accident. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/35 "2015-02-13T01:42:10Z")
Ok, I was only thinking of US subs. First, it’s a lot more dangerous being under ice. Then you have to find ice suitable for breaking through, and on top of that US subs can only launch submerged. I’d be surprised to find out the Russians routinely patrolled under ice and didn’t just do a demonstration launch or two. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/36 "2015-02-13T01:51:38Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > That was the biggest surprise to me; I had no idea that dive planes (and I didn’t know that’s what they’re called) rotated at all, let alone to vertical. I always assumed they were fixed. The dive planes move for the same reason that an airplane’s tail elevators move; to pitch the vessel up or down. That is their function. ---
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/37 "2015-02-13T06:26:55Z")
Now I have a question: how badly do submariners riff the tv Mst3k style when “Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea” is on? ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/38 "2015-02-13T12:56:29Z")
> [@AtomicDog](#): > > Now I have a question: how badly do submariners riff the tv Mst3k style when “Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea” is on? 😕 Why? _Voyage_ got it exactly right. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416/39 "2015-02-13T16:31:52Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > 😕 Why? _Voyage_ got it exactly right. Something about a poster named \*\*yoyodyne \*\*opining on matters of submarines ascending and descending vertically through the water & ice struck me funny. John Bigbootee notwithstanding. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-gmc-commerical-with-a-sub-real-or-faked/712416.md?page=1)