# Is the Health Care bill going to pass today? (March 21st) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 21, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261 "2010-03-21T19:30:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/101 "2010-03-22T05:15:46Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > Actually, [3 people switched votes](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/03/health-care-finale-liveblog.html). 2 who voted no on the bill voted for the reconciliation bill, and 1 who voted for the reform bill voted no on the reconciliation bill, for a net pickup of 1. I can understand the 2 who switched to yes on reconciliation. At least they can tell their constituents that they voted to remove the various special deals in the Senate bill. The one that switched the other way is a bit more mystifying for me. “Hey I voted to give you all access to better health insurance. And I voted to leave the special deals in for Nebraska and other places.”:confused" There were a lot of changes that didn’t have to do with “kickbacks” and the like. The excise tax was weakened, the subsidies were strengthend, etc. I imagine someone was against one of those changes. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/102 "2010-03-22T05:30:58Z")
It was Jim Cooper of the 5th District in TN, which is pretty much Nashville and surroundings. He is a Blue Dog, who touts the economic [necessity of reform on his website](http://www.cooper.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=281&Itemid=76). Which makes his vote against the reconciliation bill less clear to me, since it seems to make the Senate bill better financially from what I have seen. ---
**Author:** ![DJ\_Motorbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90ced4/32.png) [@DJ\_Motorbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DJ_Motorbike)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/103 "2010-03-22T05:47:45Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > So what part do you have a problem with? > > The implication that not everyone has the intention of making an honestly earned profit but are only too happy to profit by cheating and exploiting others? > > My sincere doubt that if in fact you ever find yourself in need of any assistance you will let yourself and your family starve because you find it utterly distasteful to have the government interfere in you decisions? Why should I have to look to the government at all? I rely on myself first, family second, community third and only as a last resort would I even consider thinking about looking for a government solution. This country routinely helps out entire nations when they are in need of help. The generosity of people here is enormous. We don’t need the government to mandate it. Recently in my community a woman was stricken with a disease that will eventually, though slowly leave her helpless. Needless to say the outpouring for this woman and her family has been enormous. People help each other out when times get tough. There is the case of Natoma Canfield. Obama used her as an example of how the cost of health care was going to put her out of her home. It turned out she was in no such danger. She hadn’t exhausted all of the existing state run programs and even then was still eligible for charity care from Cleveland Clinic. [LA Times](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/03/obama-healthcare-natoma.html) > [@](#): > > . . .Natoma, who is undergoing treatment at the famous Cleveland Clinic. A spokeswoman there said the woman was virtually certain to qualify for aid and, anyway, the clinic has no intention of placing any liens on her home for the expensive care she is now receiving free. This was Obama’s example. This is why we need a government mandate? I just don’t buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/104 "2010-03-22T05:56:59Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > This was Obama’s example. This is why we need a government mandate? I just don’t buy it. Two people? Two people who couldn’t afford health care received help from the generosity of their neighbors and you think the same can be said for the 40 million others who are uninsured? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/105 "2010-03-22T06:31:09Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > Why should I have to look to the government at all? I rely on myself first, family second, community third and only as a last resort would I even consider thinking about looking for a government solution. This country routinely helps out entire nations when they are in need of help. The generosity of people here is enormous. We don’t need the government to mandate it. > > Recently in my community a woman was stricken with a disease that will eventually, though slowly leave her helpless. Needless to say the outpouring for this woman and her family has been enormous. People help each other out when times get tough. > > There is the case of Natoma Canfield. Obama used her as an example of how the cost of health care was going to put her out of her home. It turned out she was in no such danger. She hadn’t exhausted all of the existing state run programs and even then was still eligible for charity care from Cleveland Clinic. > > [LA Times](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/03/obama-healthcare-natoma.html) > > This was Obama’s example. This is why we need a government mandate? I just don’t buy it. How in the world do you confuse the charity of others with specialized, professional (and costly) health care? 😕 Do you stick your own finger up your ass to check your prostate, get your mom to do it of you can’t reach, and if she’s not available, call your neighbor or the local rotary club? ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/106 "2010-03-22T09:07:32Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > Cool, it passed. This is a great first step, and one I’ve been waiting to hear for a long time. > > I am convinced the government should run all aspects of our private lives. They could tell us what to wear and what to eat. They could tell us who and what to worship. They could tell us who is allowed to reproduce at what rates. Nobody would be allowed to fail at anything because we would live in perfect harmonic equality. > > Government could keep us all safe within its loving arms if it wasn’t for the evil corporations who always stand in the way of Government Progress. I would be in favor of the government mandating people like you take a few economics classes so I didn’t have to listen to this drivel anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/107 "2010-03-22T12:47:40Z")
When (and if) reconciliation passes in the Senate tomorrow, it could just be with a quorum present, right? No need for all 100 senators (less any vacancies)? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/108 "2010-03-22T13:54:27Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > Bullshit, you’re projecting your flaccid liberal ideas onto me. Keep them to yourself. > [@cmyk](#): > > Do you stick your own finger up your ass to check your prostate, get your mom to do it of you can’t reach, and if she’s not available, call your neighbor or the local rotary club? > [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I would be in favor of the government mandating people like you take a few economics classes so I didn’t have to listen to this drivel anymore. This is not appropriate in this forum. Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/109 "2010-03-22T14:08:54Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > When (and if) reconciliation passes in the Senate tomorrow, it could just be with a quorum present, right? No need for all 100 senators (less any vacancies)? The only thing the Senate can’t do with the normal 51 quorum is choose the President if the electoral college fails to return a majority vote. Then they need two thirds. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/110 "2010-03-22T14:59:37Z")
They’re going to call a point of order or something on every single fucking comma, as part of the scorched-earth policy they’ve locked themselves into. It may take a few days. ---
**Author:** ![DJ\_Motorbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90ced4/32.png) [@DJ\_Motorbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DJ_Motorbike)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/111 "2010-03-22T15:07:52Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > Two people? > > Two people who couldn’t afford health care received help from the generosity of their neighbors and you think the same can be said for the 40 million others who are uninsured? There are 40 million examples and this was the best Obama could come up with? ---
**Author:** ![DJ\_Motorbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90ced4/32.png) [@DJ\_Motorbike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DJ_Motorbike)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/112 "2010-03-22T15:10:15Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > How in the world do you confuse the charity of others with specialized, professional (and costly) health care? 😕 > > Do you stick your own finger up your ass to check your prostate, get your mom to do it of you can’t reach, and if she’s not available, call your neighbor or the local rotary club? If you take a look at the link I posted you will see that the woman in question who Obama used as an example of why we need health care reform is receiving charity care from Cleveland Clinic. If they aren’t professional enough for you who is? ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/113 "2010-03-22T15:25:47Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > Why should I have to look to the government at all? I rely on myself first, family second, community third and only as a last resort would I even consider thinking about looking for a government solution. This country routinely helps out entire nations when they are in need of help. The generosity of people here is enormous. We don’t need the government to mandate it. This country routinely has people filing for bankruptcy as a result of medical expenses they can’t personally cover. How is it that the generosity of their communities failed to provide them with adequate medical care? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/114 "2010-03-22T15:33:10Z")
The govt keeps on interfering in people lives. Can’t even run a lunch counter, swimming pool, or bus system the way you want to these days. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/115 "2010-03-22T15:46:35Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > The govt keeps on interfering in people lives. Can’t even run a lunch counter, swimming pool, or bus system the way you want to these days. or drinking fountains F#%kin’ commie bastards ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/116 "2010-03-23T02:33:27Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > There are 40 million examples and this was the best Obama could come up with? So absence of evidence from Obama is proof of absence? [Here](http://public-healthcare-issues.suite101.com/article.cfm/medical_bankruptcy_epidemic) is what I came up with by doing a 2 second Google. No one is seriously disputing that there are people going bankrupt because they can’t pay health care costs. I’m not sure how one bad example from Obama negates all those other people. Do you really think that all those uninsured people will receive charity care when they face a health crisis? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/117 "2010-03-24T03:15:18Z")
This is my frank opinion of the Health Care Bill. This bill (and I know this will be heresy and RINOist to many Republicans) has a lot of good ideas but two things in here make it so I can’t support it due to my conscience. The first is the mandate of having everyone purchase healthcare and second is the federal funding of abortion (and the President’s executive order doesn’t have much say-that’s the Straight Dope on that). But than again the Republicans failed to act on health care reform in their years in office. Thus on the balance I advocate moderating and modifying this bill. I heard Mark Levin rant against Republicans who want to modify this bill. Let’s hope they exist in large numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/118 "2010-03-24T03:40:47Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > and second is the federal funding of abortion (and the President’s executive order doesn’t have much say-that’s the Straight Dope on that). The Presidents Executive Order doesn’t have much effect because it just reiterates the fact that the bill already expressly forbids federally funding abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/119 "2010-03-24T05:33:14Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > This is my frank opinion of the Health Care Bill. > > This bill (and I know this will be heresy and RINOist to many Republicans) has a lot of good ideas but two things in here make it so I can’t support it due to my conscience. The first is the mandate of having everyone purchase healthcare and second is the federal funding of abortion (and the President’s executive order doesn’t have much say-that’s the Straight Dope on that). But than again the Republicans failed to act on health care reform in their years in office. Thus on the balance I advocate moderating and modifying this bill. I heard Mark Levin rant against Republicans who want to modify this bill. Let’s hope they exist in large numbers. Do you understand why the mandate is necessary? Do you understand anything about risk pools and gaming the system? BTW I just donated some money to the Dems and am going to get my very own HCR T-shirt. I’ll save it in case the teabaggers decide to have a rally around here - not very likely, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261/120 "2010-03-24T21:15:22Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > This is my frank opinion of the Health Care Bill. > > This bill (and I know this will be heresy and RINOist to many Republicans) has a lot of good ideas but two things in here make it so I can’t support it due to my conscience. The first is the mandate of having everyone purchase healthcare and second is the federal funding of abortion (and the President’s executive order doesn’t have much say-that’s the Straight Dope on that). But than again the Republicans failed to act on health care reform in their years in office. Thus on the balance I advocate moderating and modifying this bill. I heard Mark Levin rant against Republicans who want to modify this bill. Let’s hope they exist in large numbers. As **Simplicio** has pointed out, the bill not only has no funding for abortions (despite all the loud noises coming from the “pro-life” groups), it goes to great lengths spelling out details to prevent any federal funding from having a remote chance of funding an abortion. And that individual mandate you don’t like? It is a Republican idea placed in the bill to overcome some of the problems caused by not allowing a public option or a Medicare for all system. So congratulations, of the 2 things in the bill you don’t like, one doesn’t exist and the other is Republican. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-health-care-bill-going-to-pass-today-march-21st/533261.md?page=7)