Is the idea of overnight growth spurts still accepted?

[Dana_Scully]

@chappachula

an anecdote:
I once grew overnight.
When I was a 12 year old boy, I got the flu and a fever, and stayed in bed for 1-2 days. When I finally strong enough to get out of bed and walk downstairs, I had grown about a half inch. My family kept a line of pencil marks on the kitchen wall tracking the heights of each kid, and by coincidence, we had marked my height just the day before I got sick. So, with a quick check on the wall, a new pencil mark was added.

Wow! that’s amazing!

[TriPolar]

I misread your quote in post #29. They rejected the use of the more accurate knemometer in favor of a stadiometer. So I’ll have to go back through the references to see what measurement methods were used where. However, a stadiometer cannot determine if there is any growth at all in that short period of time. Tissue can stretch and compress. To determine growth to that fine of a measure you need to measure something specific, not the cumulative measure of components which are variable in size. The use of a knemometer to demonstrate the leg bone growth over a 24 hour period may be accurate enough for that one part and even to reasonably extrapolate growth of the entire body to determine if 1/2 inch per day is possible, though that specific goal is not of any great importance. Accurate measurements of individual bone and tissue growth rate would be much more useful information.

[DSeid]

@TriPolar

… a stadiometer cannot determine if there is any growth at all in that short period of time. Tissue can stretch and compress. To determine growth to that fine of a measure you need to measure something specific, not the cumulative measure of components which are variable in size…

Yes, I understand that such is your claim. And yet they claim to have managed to do so.

The technique, briefly, was to measure with standard technique same time each day twice and use a statistical smoothing technique, as follows:

Standing and supine height was measured with a Harpenden stadiometer to the last complete millimetre (precision 0.1 cm). Measurements were taken twice, in a blind fashion, by the same observer (S.C.) using the stretching technique (upward pressure on the mastoid processes) to minimize the effect of posture or activity levels (Lampl et al. 1992). Children were measured every day at the same time (±2 h) in order to control for diurnal changes in total height. The stadiometer was calibrated on each occasion with reference to a metre rod.

Technical error of measurement (TEM) was calculated for each child on the basis of all replicate measurements (128 days) according to Cameron (1986). Overall mean intra-observer TEM for all children was 0.12 cm (r = 0.08–0.20 cm). In order to evaluate the measurement’s reliability, replicated daily measurements were also taken by a second observer (P.A.) on the same schoolchildren and adolescent samples, in the same conditions. … A robust smoothing technique was used in order to reduce changes in stature due to measurement error. This jump-preserving smoothing technique was performed as described in two earlier studies (Kelmansky 2002; Caino et al. 2004).

I readily admit that I am no expert on statistics and cannot vouch for that “robust smoothing technique” but unless they cheated it is of note that no sudden jumps down were noted, which sudden jumps as an artifact of technical measurement error should have also created. It is also consistent with the sudden growth findings when measuring only the lower limb using the knemometer.

[Chief_Pedant]

@Chronos

The time of day of measurement wouldn’t make a difference, because you’d be controlling for that. It’s really easy to do so: Compare each measurement only to other measurements made at the same time of day. As for the rest of the noise sources, you control them away as much as you can, and just average large numbers of data points to take care of the rest. Just like you’d do in any other science.

Ahh…got it.

Perhaps I was interpreting the term “overnight” in the OP’s question too pedantically, as is my custom.

I get the concept of checking every 24 hours and controlling for variables.

Just not literally “overnight,” because the noise would drown out any delta caused by factors related purely to cell division. For me, “overnight” means a reference point in the evening a second point the following AM.

[Hina]

I don’t know if it helps or not but saturday morning my 7 year old son went to park with me wearing comfy size 9.5 shoes. We played for 3 hours. Monday morning he was unable to put his feet in shoes. We returned from shoe zone with size 11 of all kinds of shoes slippers/ school shoes/ boots worth 80 pounds. :dubious: Apparently he grew 1.5 size in 2 nights.

[Kenm]

When I was a kid, I remember feeling taller a few times over the years when I got out of bed in the morning.

i don’t know if it was true. But I didn’t jump shoe sizes overnight.

[Jackmannii]

@Hina

I don’t know if it helps or not but saturday morning my 7 year old son went to park with me wearing comfy size 9.5 shoes. We played for 3 hours. Monday morning he was unable to put his feet in shoes. We returned from shoe zone with size 11 of all kinds of shoes slippers/ school shoes/ boots worth 80 pounds. :dubious: Apparently he grew 1.5 size in 2 nights.

Or he had foot swelling related to exercise or other factors.

I just read the posts in this thread for the first time, and my hair turned white overnight. :eek:

[TriPolar]

@Jackmannii

Or he had foot swelling related to exercise or other factors.

Sure, some actual growth, some foot swelling, shoe shrinkage, difference in fit between shoe styles in the same size, they can all add up. And while the maximum growth rate may not be clearly established there is evidence that growth can occur in spurts.

[bump]

I think “overnight” is a shorthand for a period of time that’s noticeable to a casual observer like a parent or teacher.

It makes sense- babies and teenagers grow at pretty outrageous rates- babies can grow 5-7 ounces a week in weight; a difference of an ounce or two could be noticeable, especially if you’re not picking them up all the time. If they grow in spurts instead of steadily, that would make it even more noticeable.

And the same goes for teenagers- in a 5 month period, I grew about 4 inches, which comes out to about 20.32 mm per month, or about 0.68 mm per day, more or less. If that was concentrated in a few spurts of a week or so, that might easily be noticeable to the casual observer in a way that 0.68 mm per day wouldn’t be.

[HoneyBadgerDC]

My son is 6’4" and I started measuring him and marking the wall with his height at about 5 years old, we measured at the first of every month and did this until he went away to college.
It seemed very consistent over the entire length of lhis life with a growth spurt period between about 12 and 16 years old where it might have increased by a very small amount like 1/16" extra per month from the usual about 1/4". But overall more consistent than I would have expected.