# Is the Immaculate Conception of Mary or Jesus?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-immaculate-conception-of-mary-or-jesus/515548>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [October 29, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-immaculate-conception-of-mary-or-jesus/515548 "2009-10-29T02:27:22Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 3\
**Page:** 5

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**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\
**Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-immaculate-conception-of-mary-or-jesus/515548/81 "2009-11-07T00:14:20Z")

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> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#):
>
> I wouldn’t put _begging the question_ on that list. Persons who use it to mean “Phenomenon X makes one wonder about Possibility Y” are using _begging the question_ in a literal rather than metaphorical sense.

“begging the question” doesn’t _have_ a literal sense. Outside its use as a term of art, it’s a nonsensical formation.

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**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\
**Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-immaculate-conception-of-mary-or-jesus/515548/82 "2009-11-14T13:19:00Z")

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> [@begbert2](#):
>
> “begging the question” doesn’t _have_ a literal sense. Outside its use as a term of art, it’s a nonsensical formation.

To beg can mean to solicit. ([source](http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=beg))

If I solicit a question from you, I’m requesting a question. The only thing figurative about this formation is that I my request may be accidental and implied. (And, when applied to statements, [e.g. Your answer begs the question…] it is, of course, anthropomorphizing them.)

As for the “Immaculate Conception” topic:  
Doesn’t it seem like it sets the problem back another generation? Now we have the problem of how do Mary’s parents produce a child that doesn’t have sin, if they themselves do? And if you can resolve this for them, why couldn’t you resolve it for Mary? Why couldn’t the Virgin Birth cause the immaculate conception of Jesus?

Or does it retroactively apply to Jesus’ ancestors? Because the genealogies in Matthew and Luke have a lot of people who sinned. Heck, Luke has Adam himself, whose sin is the very cause of “original sin.”

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**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\
**Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-immaculate-conception-of-mary-or-jesus/515548/83 "2009-11-16T06:56:23Z")

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> [@CurtC](#):
>
> And the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception didn’t become a required belief (dogma) until 1854.

And here’s the cite, for those who want to see the original [Ineffabilis Deus, from Pius IX in 1854.](http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9ineff.htm) (English translation.)

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