# Is the Japanese train really this congested? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 5, 2010, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667 "2010-09-05T05:14:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/1 "2010-09-05T05:14:54Z")
Oshiya (train pushers) doing their job [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/33qxTMA9XTA/hqdefault.jpg "oshiya tokyo train pushing") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33qxTMA9XTA) :eek: :eek: If this is real how can the people put up with it? It seems like that kind of crowding is a massive safety hazard. In the U.S. there are occupancy restrictions for theaters, stadiums, trains, and of course prisons. Crowd size is controled as much as possible. It’s hard to imagine what kind of hell it must be on those trains. Is it really as bad as the video looks? How do they avoid broken bones? Do people frequently pass out or die? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/2 "2010-09-05T05:20:49Z")
Oshiya don’t exist anymore, but a helpful soul generally does the same deed for free. But so yes, they are that congested in places and at times. Usually it gets like that at the end of the night, when there’s only a few trains left to go before the system shuts down for the night. ETA: The Wikipedia seems to indicate that oshiya still exist, but I haven’t seen them. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/3 "2010-09-05T05:25:14Z")
A friend of mine who was doing an installation in Japan a couple of years ago said she saw them then, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![ethansiegel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/2bfe46/32.png) [@ethansiegel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethansiegel)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/4 "2010-09-05T05:28:11Z")
As of 2005, I can attest that, at the busiest times on at least two of the lines in Tokyo, that is really close to an accurate depiction of the most severe of my experiences. But it never felt unsafe, not for a moment. It was crowded, sure, but everything always moved efficiently, which is much more than I can say for even my best experiences in the USA and Europe. And I understand that my experience was pretty typical; just a notch below what the video shows. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/5 "2010-09-05T05:28:11Z")
Another video. This time they are a little less aggressive. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/sCxtq__3xc4/hqdefault.jpg "Japanese Train during Rush Hour") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCxtq__3xc4) At first they tell a few people to leave. Then change their minds and cram them in. That must be some train ride. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/6 "2010-09-05T05:52:28Z")
How do you get OUT? Does everyone just spill out at the next station, sort themselves out, and get back in again? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/7 "2010-09-05T06:09:13Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > How do you get OUT? Does everyone just spill out at the next station, sort themselves out, and get back in again? Yup. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/8 "2010-09-05T12:06:28Z")
The fun part is getting off when you’ve been pushed into the center of the train through the crush of people. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/9 "2010-09-05T13:10:44Z")
A little off-topic but … [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inA-36YRV0Y&NR=1&feature=fvwp](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inA-36YRV0Y&NR=1&feature=fvwp) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/10 "2010-09-05T14:25:50Z")
Apparently groping of female passengers is rampant, although they have now introduced women-only cars during rush hour. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/11 "2010-09-05T14:52:47Z")
> [@adhay](#): > > A little off-topic but … [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inA-36YRV0Y&NR=1&feature=fvwp](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inA-36YRV0Y&NR=1&feature=fvwp) the new lifeguard on the first day of work –\> :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/12 "2010-09-05T15:14:50Z")
I’ve been on the tubes in London when it was packed solid - obviously not to the extreme that happens with the pushers in Japan, but still it was crammed with people, all in tight contact with one another. To be honest, it was kind of fun - just because for me (a day visitor), it was such an unusual situation, being crammed into physical contact with strangers. I made sure my valuables were all secured, but the press of bodies itself wasn’t a problem. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/13 "2010-09-05T15:22:33Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Apparently groping of female passengers is rampant, although they have now introduced women-only cars during rush hour. I’d imagine pickpockets are there in droves too. ---
**Author:** ![kun11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/91b2a8/32.png) [@kun11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kun11)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/14 "2010-09-05T16:16:01Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > > [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > > > Apparently groping of female passengers is rampant, although they have now introduced women-only cars during rush hour. > > I’d imagine pickpockets are there in droves too. Though they do exist, pickpockets are not nearly the problem that they are in most other countries around the world. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/15 "2010-09-05T20:44:13Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Usually it gets like that at the end of the night, when there’s only a few trains left to go before the system shuts down for the night. So why do they shut the system down at all? It’s pretty obvious from that crowding that there are enough customers. ---
**Author:** ![RadicalPi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/radicalpi/32/9806_2.png) [@RadicalPi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadicalPi)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/16 "2010-09-05T20:46:48Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > So why do they shut the system down at all? > > It’s pretty obvious from that crowding that there are enough customers. No cite, but I believe that they need some down time to do maintenance on the system. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/17 "2010-09-05T21:07:38Z")
> [@RadicalPi](#): > > > [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > > > So why do they shut the system down at all? > > > > It’s pretty obvious from that crowding that there are enough customers. > > No cite, but I believe that they need some down time to do maintenance on the system. The whole system? Every single day? Sounds like a pretty poorly designed system, then. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/18 "2010-09-05T21:27:45Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > > [@RadicalPi](#): > > > > No cite, but I believe that they need some down time to do maintenance on the system. > > The whole system? Every single day? > Sounds like a pretty poorly designed system, then. Again no cite but I seem to remember that this is the opposite side of their fabled reliability and high traffic density. Every night is maintenance night. (I remember this from a discussion of the UK rail system and a Network Rail manager saying if he could have the track cleared for six hours every night he could meet Japanese standards of reliability!) ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/19 "2010-09-05T21:41:15Z")
[quote=“MarcusF, post:18, topic:552667”] > [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > … Japanese standards of reliability!) I must suppose that they factor in 5 min at each stop to the rush time timetable. Maybe with one more train/hr, they could bring it down to four. Analysts and bean counters? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667/20 "2010-09-05T22:21:47Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > So why do they shut the system down at all? > > It’s pretty obvious from that crowding that there are enough customers. IMHO, because proper people are home and in bed by a certain time. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-japanese-train-really-this-congested/552667.md?page=2)