# Is the Koran significantly more violent than the Bible? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 11, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034 "2014-10-11T13:21:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![IMfez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f07891/32.png) [@IMfez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IMfez)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/1 "2014-10-11T13:21:45Z")
I think we all understand that there are both messages of peace and violence in each book. My question is specifically focused on magnitude and scope of the difference. Do the teachings of the Koran advocate, glamorize, encourage the use of violence, significantly more so than the Bible? Or are they both about the same? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/2 "2014-10-11T14:28:35Z")
Is there a scene in the Koran where the entire population of the earth is destroyed, save for a boatload of animals and one family? ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/3 "2014-10-11T14:49:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there a scene in the Koran where the entire population of the earth is destroyed, save for a boatload of animals and one family? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah\_in\_Islam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_in_Islam) > [@](#): > > According to Islam, Noah’s mission was to save a wicked world, plunged in depravity and sin. God charged Noah with the duty of preaching to his people to make them abandon idolatry and to worship only the One Creator and to live good and pure lives.[3] Although he preached the Message of God with immense zeal, his people refused to mend their ways, leading to his building of the Ark and the famous event of the Deluge, the Great Flood in which all the evil people of his time perished. The influence of Noah’s preaching and prophet-hood spanned 950 years according to Quran. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/4 "2014-10-11T14:51:00Z")
This question doesn’t make sense, because the Bible isn’t a book. It’s a set of books, written at different times by different people and given (historically, by Christians) varying levels of authority and historical credibility. There’s certainly a lot of violence in the Old Testament to equal or surpass the Quran. In the New Testament, not so much. (And no, the Apocalypse of St. John doesn’t count. God and His angels wreaking havoc on the world is a very different think from encouraging humans to do it ourselves.) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/5 "2014-10-11T14:58:14Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is there a scene in the Koran where the entire population of the earth is destroyed, save for a boatload of animals and one family? Do natural disasters or acts of God (in this case literally) count as “violence”? In any case, while there are certainly plenty of depictions of violence in the Bible, the OP asked about the _message_: the extent to which each “advocate, glamorize, encourage the use of violence.” It’s not a bad question IMHO, but it’s tough to answer because it involves interpretation. (Also, I don’t know nearly enough about the Koran to attempt answering it myself.) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/6 "2014-10-11T15:11:45Z")
The OP is obviously asking about whether the two books “advocate, glamorize, encourage the use of violence” by _followers_ at the same level, not by the deity character of book. It’s a good question. I sometimes wonder if the people who justify violence and terrorism via verses from Koran would simply use similarly violent verses from the Bible if they happened to follow that Abrahamic religion instead of the other. If one has significantly more than the other, then perhaps not. I have no idea, and I hope there are some good answers coming in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/7 "2014-10-11T15:28:35Z")
According to the historian [Philp Jenkins](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Jenkins), The Bible wins. OT, of course. > [@](#): > > [Is The Bible More Violent Than The Quran?](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788) > > “Much to my surprise, the Islamic scriptures in the Quran were actually far less bloody and less violent than those in the Bible,” Jenkins says. > > \ > > Violence in the Quran, he and others say, is largely a defense against attack. > > “By the standards of the time, which is the 7th century A.D., the laws of war that are laid down by the Quran are actually reasonably humane,” > > \ > > It [in The Bible] is called herem, and it means total annihilation. Consider the Book of 1 Samuel, when God instructs King Saul to attack the Amalekites: “And utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them,” God says through the prophet Samuel. “But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.” But the thing is, are there any contemporary religious leaders who urge their followers to take that advice today? ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/8 "2014-10-11T17:55:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > are there any contemporary religious leaders who urge their followers to take that advice today? This is the important issue. Not what the text says, but _how it is used_ by the leaders who rely on it. Anytime you try to understand a famous text, you should never just read it word-for-word. You always need additional context. This is vital…not just for religious documents, but for _any_ text. Examples: The American Declaration of Independence declares that “all men are created equal”. Sounds simple, right? But the men who wrote it owned other men as slaves. Only by reading the document in context, and knowing a couple centuries of history, and seeing \* how the document was used\*, can we decide whether the document really meant what the words declare. The Constitution of the USSR , just like the American constitution, had clearly written guarantees freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion. But we all know that what life was like under communism.We have to look at how the document was used (in America) or not used (in the USSR), before we can decide whether it really meant what the words declare. So the OP asks a very simple, black-and-white question---- but one which has no simple, black-and-white answer. You can copy/paste quotes and words side by side— from the Koran vs the Bible, or from the US vs Soviet constitutions, or from any other famous texts. But the answer will not come from comparing the words…it comes from comparing how those words are used over the course of history. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/9 "2014-10-11T18:27:05Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > This question doesn’t make sense, because the Bible isn’t a book. It’s a set of books, written at different times by different people and given (historically, by Christians) varying levels of authority and historical credibility. “The judge said ‘Monster Island’ was just a name!” “Yes, it’s actually a peninsula!” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/10 "2014-10-11T18:35:58Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > This is the important issue. Not what the text says, but _how it is used_ by the leaders who rely on it. I totally disagree. The topic is the topic: “Do the teachings of the Koran advocate, glamorize, encourage the use of violence, significantly more so than the Bible?” For this, we have to stick to what the Koran and the Bible _actually_ say. If one book advocates violence more than the other, then the fact that the followers of the second book choose to act more on the violent teachings of the second book doesn’t change the original fact. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/11 "2014-10-11T18:44:59Z")
I think I disagree with your disagreement, Czarcasm. The three western holy books (The Torah, The Bible and The Koran) are so completely intertwined with their earlier versions that application and interpretation are a vital part of how they’re conveyed. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/12 "2014-10-11T18:52:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I totally disagree. … we have to stick to what the Koran and the Bible _actually_ say. So you would read both the US constitution and the USSR constitution as equals? Sure, you can copy/past the words side-by-side. But that’s a very oversimplified way to answer a question, especially in the GD forum (from the USSR’s constitution : Article 50: " citizens of the USSR are guaranteed freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly, meetings, street processions and demonstrations." Article 52: "Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed freedom of conscience, that is, the right to profess or not to profess any religion, and to conduct religious worship. ) Just like in America, right? Who needs the First Amendment? Gee, I wish I’d been born in the USSR. The USSR constitution is even more specific than the 1st ammendment–specifying that the government will build public square for demonstrations to be held, etc…) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/13 "2014-10-11T18:54:03Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I think I disagree with your disagreement, Czarcasm. The three western holy books (The Torah, The Bible and The Koran) are so completely intertwined with their earlier versions that application and interpretation are a vital part of how they’re conveyed. But doesn’t your interpretation make the OP itself pretty much meaningless? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/14 "2014-10-11T18:56:31Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > So you would read both the US constitution and the USSR constitution as equals? > Sure, you can copy/past the words side-by-side. But that’s a very oversimplified way to answer a question, especially in the GD forum > > (from the USSR’s constitution : > Article 50: " citizens of the USSR are guaranteed freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly, meetings, street processions and demonstrations." > Article 52: "Citizens of the USSR are guaranteed freedom of conscience, that is, the right to profess or not to profess any religion, and to conduct religious worship. ) > Just like in America, right? Gee, I wish I’d been born in the USSR) They question “What do they advocate?” is different from the question “How were they interpreted?” Or at least I think those are two separate questions. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/15 "2014-10-11T18:58:24Z")
I don’t think so. The OP asks about the messages in two of the three (though, as I said, separating them is a herculean task). But all three have enormously contradictory passages. It is possible to read each one (I’ve done so) and get completely opposed messages. In such a case it’s up to the reader to make the call. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/16 "2014-10-11T19:00:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They question “What do they advocate?” is different from the question “How were they interpreted?” > Or at least I think those are two separate questions. Well, the Ku Klux Klan advocates a nice, simple idea: separation of the races. No need to ask how they interpret that, right? Sometimes, you can’t ask a simple question without putting it into wider context. (True Story: a Chinese diplomat once handed a nicely wrapped gift to a visiting Israeli diplomat. A copy of the _Protocols of the Elders of Zion_. It was an innocent mistake, by a naive and uneducated Chinese bureaucrat. But it shows how you need historical context to make sense of a text.) ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/17 "2014-10-11T19:22:08Z")
Does anyone disagree with **John Mace** ’s Jenkins reference and conclusion? I’ve read the Bible but not the Quran and so am looking to this thread to help settle the issue, a little anyway. Also, isn’t the Torah the same as the Pentateuch, and so therefore the Torah is in and part of the Bible’s OT? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/18 "2014-10-11T19:30:16Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Well, the Ku Klux Klan advocates a nice, simple idea: separation of the races. No need to ask how they interpret that, right? > > Sometimes, you can’t ask a simple question without putting it into wider context. > (True Story: a Chinese diplomat once handed a nicely wrapped gift to a visiting Israeli diplomat. A copy of the _Protocols of the Elders of Zion_. > It was an innocent mistake, by a naive and uneducated Chinese bureaucrat. But it shows how you need historical context to make sense of a text.) What I am trying to get at is this: The title of this thread is _Is the Koran significantly more violent than the Bible?_, and I was hoping to see comparisons between the two, and not another degradation into _Are the followers of the Koran significantly more violent than the followers of the Bible?_ **John Mace** gives a link that actually compares the two books in post #7, but no one else refers to it, and no one else even refers to comparing the books in like manner. By the way, that same link goes on to describe the difference in the Koran between jihad , which is legal warfare with the proper rules of engagement, and irjaf, which is illegal terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/19 "2014-10-11T19:35:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > **John Mace** gives a link that actually compares the two books in post #7, but no one else refers to it, and no one else even refers to comparing the books in like manner. I did, just before you posted this. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034/20 "2014-10-11T19:39:31Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Does anyone disagree with John Mace’s Jenkins reference\*\* and conclusion?\*\* His reference may be fine…but notice that Jenkin’s conclusion begins with the words :“By the standards of its time…” That means that you _must_ take historical context into consideration. And I would suggest that you should not only use Jenkin’s definition (“the standards of its time”), but also the standards of _our_ time. > [@](#): > > Also, isn’t the Torah the same as the Pentateuch, and so therefore the Torah is in and part of the Bible’s OT? Yes. The Torah is simply the first 5 books of the old testament. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-koran-significantly-more-violent-than-the-bible/701034.md?page=2)