# Is the lack of black fathers the true reason for racial disparity? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2020, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lack-of-black-fathers-the-true-reason-for-racial-disparity/923010 "2020-10-15T13:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lack-of-black-fathers-the-true-reason-for-racial-disparity/923010/141 "2020-10-24T15:34:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And I _think_ **N\_B** is in the UK, not Australia. Now that you say that I believe you’re right. I even mistakenly accused him of being Aussie once before awhile ago and he corrected me then. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lack-of-black-fathers-the-true-reason-for-racial-disparity/923010/142 "2020-10-24T15:38:51Z")
> [@JBlackstone](#): > > If we look at attitudes to immigrants and if we say that the more unpopular immigrants are in a country the more racist it is This would be “interesting” if it hadn’t already been raised and dealt with in this very thread. Immigration is not a proxy for racism in South Africa the way it is in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![JBlackstone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jblackstone/32/5256_2.png) [@JBlackstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBlackstone)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lack-of-black-fathers-the-true-reason-for-racial-disparity/923010/143 "2020-10-24T15:58:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > This would be “interesting” if it hadn’t already been raised and dealt with in this very thread. Immigration is not a proxy for racism in South Africa the way it is in the UK. There’s clearly more of a certain kind of prejudice in South Africa than in the UK. What would you call it? Xenophobia? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lack-of-black-fathers-the-true-reason-for-racial-disparity/923010/144 "2020-10-24T16:21:43Z")
Yes, exactly xenophobia. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lack-of-black-fathers-the-true-reason-for-racial-disparity/923010/145 "2020-10-24T16:33:11Z")
Just to expand on that: It’s mainly nationalism-fueled xenophobia, to be exact (unlike the UK’s half-racism half-nationalism brand). Post-Apartheid, the various SA governments put a _lot_ of propaganda effort into trying to get a _very_ divided nation into thinking of itself as one country and one nationality. It kinda-sorta worked, too, which is amazing if you have any experience with where it was coming from. But this virulent xenophobia is partly one of the unintended consequences, I think. It’s kind of sad - I can remember what it was like before - the workers on the gold mines I was a geologist on were from all over Southern Africa, but there wasn’t anything like the current resentment of people from Zimbabwe, Botswana and Mozambique. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lack-of-black-fathers-the-true-reason-for-racial-disparity/923010/146 "2020-10-24T17:34:40Z")
It obviously didn’t work on you, you practically jumped down my throat when I tried to make a joke about you supporting a South African athlete in the Olympics. But really that’s a shame. I wonder if there is any way to build a nation without that unpleasant side effect? After all, you can’t have an in-group without an out-group. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lack-of-black-fathers-the-true-reason-for-racial-disparity/923010/147 "2020-10-24T17:47:34Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > It obviously didn’t work on you, you practically jumped down my throat when I tried to make a joke about you supporting a South African athlete in the Olympics. I’m quite keyed to people ignorantly projecting their own nationalism onto me - people assume just because I do defend South Africa when it’s being maligned with factually incorrect smears (you could search for [previous](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/south-africa-going-the-way-of-zimbabwe/801071/17) threads on White genocide in South Africa, for example), that I’m nationalistic. I’m not in the slightest - I think nation-states are an absurd idea. I just hate bullshit. > [@DemonTree](#): > > But really that’s a shame. I wonder if there is any way to build a nation without that unpleasant side effect? Sure - you could base your nationalism on _being_ a nation of immigrants. That used to be part of the American Dream _spiel_. Of course, it fell apart rapidly when the immigrants were no longer mainly White. But other places _could_ do it without that aspect. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lack-of-black-fathers-the-true-reason-for-racial-disparity/923010/148 "2020-10-24T18:02:40Z")
If a **[District 9](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1136608/)** event (interesting South Africa tie-in / coincidence there) ever became real, I think we’d find many more humans suddenly decide we’re _all_ “us” and the Aliens are “them”. Sadly I think that’s the first time most humans would be willing to consider all humans “us”. Accursed monkeys that we are. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lack-of-black-fathers-the-true-reason-for-racial-disparity/923010/149 "2020-10-24T19:17:57Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m quite keyed to people ignorantly projecting their own nationalism onto me Evidently. I couldn’t care less if you’re nationalistic or not, but I don’t appreciate being invited to the Pit over a harmless joke. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Sure - you could base your nationalism on _being_ a nation of immigrants. Only if you _are_ a nation of immigrants. I don’t think that’s true of most African countries. They’re largely lines drawn on a map by colonising empires, with little if any regard for which people live where. Anyway, @LSLGuy is right. This thread is supposed to be about America, and whatever the problems with racism in the UK, they aren’t the same as those in the US, and I doubt SA is the same either. We’ve got way off topic. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lack-of-black-fathers-the-true-reason-for-racial-disparity/923010/150 "2020-10-24T19:21:00Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > If a **[District 9](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1136608/)** event (interesting South Africa tie-in / coincidence there) ever became real, I think we’d find many more humans suddenly decide we’re _all_ “us” and the Aliens are “them”. > > Sadly I think that’s the first time most humans would be willing to consider all humans “us”. Accursed monkeys that we are. You’re not the first person to speculate that alien invasion is the only way to get humans to unite. (I enjoyed District 9, but I thought the way it depicted the Nigerians was pretty racist.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lack-of-black-fathers-the-true-reason-for-racial-disparity/923010/151 "2020-10-24T21:21:17Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > We’ve got way off topic. Maybe next time drop the ignorant speculation about things you know absolutely less than thing about, then - like my circumstances: > [@DemonTree](#): > > You live in South Africa, it’s not a huge surprise you know a disproportionate number of racists. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lack-of-black-fathers-the-true-reason-for-racial-disparity/923010/152 "2020-10-24T21:42:20Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Now that you say that I believe you’re right. I even mistakenly accused him of being Aussie once before awhile ago and he corrected me then. :smack: Not to worry, In any case I think the facts don’t have a nationality. I am from the UK but consider myself an international and spend a considerable time working and travelling abroad. I don’t mind a bit being mistaken for an aussie, a wonderful country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lack-of-black-fathers-the-true-reason-for-racial-disparity/923010.md?page=7)