# Is the Lebanese government serious? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 17, 2006, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940 "2006-07-17T23:45:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/1 "2006-07-17T23:45:06Z")
They released a statement today saying they have nothing to do with the Hezbollah shelling and that Israel should cease fire. Hmmm. If a “group” on the US-Mexican border (on the US side) started grabbing Mexican soldiers and firing missiles into Mexico then - if the “group” had nothing to do with the US government then the US military would go in and liquidate said “independent” group, wanting to stay in good graces with Mexico. if the group was involved with the US government then US military would sit on its hands, while Mexico defended itself. So, Lebanese government, which case is it with you? I don’t see the Lebanese military doing any vermin patrol. I’d have more respect for you and your country if you kept your mouth shut. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/2 "2006-07-17T23:53:07Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > If a “group” on the US-Mexican border (on the US side) started grabbing Mexican soldiers and firing missiles into Mexico then - > > if the “group” had nothing to do with the US government then the US military would go in and liquidate said “independent” group, wanting to stay in good graces with Mexico. No, they would not. The U.S. Military is generally not allowed to participate in domestic law enforcement. FBI/ATF, maybe. Texas Rangers, possibly. But not U.S. Military. > **[Posse Comitatus Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act)** > > The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385, original at 20 Stat. 152) signed on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes which limits the powers of the federal government in the use of federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States. Congress passed the Act as an amendment to an army appropriation bill following the end of Reconstruction and updated it in 1956, 1981 and 2021. > The Act originally applied only to the United S... ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/3 "2006-07-18T00:02:02Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > **Is the Lebanese government serious?** I recalling hearing an NPR report on yet another Italian parliamentary crisis. A British commentator was asked, “Is the parliamentary situation serious?” He replied, “Yes, it is serious, but it is not very important.” That’s the Lebanese government. > [@BwanaBob](#): > > If a “group” on the US-Mexican border (on the US side) started grabbing Mexican soldiers and firing missiles into Mexico then - > > if the “group” had nothing to do with the US government then the US military would go in and liquidate said “independent” group, wanting to stay in good graces with Mexico. > > if the group was involved with the US government then US military would sit on its hands, while Mexico defended itself. The difference is that the U.S. government can actually **control** events within its borders. So can the Mexican government, nowadays, but in 1916 Pancho Villa conducted a raid into the U.S., and the government (which had its own very good reasons to want him dead) was powerless to stop it. So [General Pershing led an (ultimately unsuccessful) expedition into Mexico, to get Villa.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Villa_Expedition) Even under the circumstances, of course, he had no business doing that without the Mexican government’s express permission, but there you are. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/4 "2006-07-18T00:39:11Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > They released a statement today saying they have nothing to do with the Hezbollah shelling and that Israel should cease fire. > > Hmmm. > > If a “group” on the US-Mexican border (on the US side) started grabbing Mexican soldiers and firing missiles into Mexico then - > > if the “group” had nothing to do with the US government then the US military would go in and liquidate said “independent” group, wanting to stay in good graces with Mexico. > > if the group was involved with the US government then US military would sit on its hands, while Mexico defended itself. > > So, Lebanese government, which case is it with you? > > I don’t see the Lebanese military doing any vermin patrol. > > I’d have more respect for you and your country if you kept your mouth shut. Quite possibly. It’s not like the place is uber stable. Was Israel itself responsible for multitudes of crimes committed against Palestinians by Jewish settlers? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/5 "2006-07-18T00:52:51Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > Was Israel itself responsible for multitudes of crimes committed against Palestinians by Jewish settlers? The Palestinians would say so, I’m sure, but you have to make allowances for them. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/6 "2006-07-18T01:00:31Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > No, they would not. The U.S. Military is generally not allowed to participate in domestic law enforcement. FBI/ATF, maybe. Texas Rangers, possibly. But not U.S. Military. How would you distinguish the circumstances of calling a given action a police action from calling it a military operation within the US? I would think that an action to take down a force capable of launching missiles at Mexico from within the US would fully fall within the purview of a military operation. It’s far, far from the enforcement of laws to my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/7 "2006-07-18T01:18:46Z")
\*\*Punoqllads \*\* see the cite previously provided for limitations on the Posse Comitatas Act. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/8 "2006-07-18T01:47:01Z")
I read it. The text of the Act says: > [@](#): > > Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both. “Execute the laws.” Is it “executing the law” to remove a military force from within the borders of the US? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/9 "2006-07-18T01:50:42Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > I read it. The text of the Act says: > > “Execute the laws.” Is it “executing the law” to remove a military force from within the borders of the US? No, it is not. Posse Comitatas would not apply to responding to a military attack, it doesn’t matter if it’s within the borders of the U.S. or not. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/10 "2006-07-18T01:57:33Z")
The Lebanese Army is pretty weak. I’ve heard some analysts state that in a straight-up fight, Hezbollah could very well take them, or at least hurt them very, very badly. [Obligatory WP Link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Lebanon) ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/11 "2006-07-18T02:04:38Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > They released a statement today saying they have nothing to do with the Hezbollah shelling and that Israel should cease fire. > > Hmmm. Also, the current Lebanese government is made up of an alliance of Christians and Muslims, the [majority of whom](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_government_of_July_2005) are Christians. The Defense Minister is Greek Orthodox. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/12 "2006-07-18T10:48:21Z")
> [@](#): > > is the Lebanese government serious? The real issue is not whether the Lebanese government is serious–it is whether the government is powerless. The lebanese government (and its army) is so weak that it can’t even surrender. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/13 "2006-07-18T11:01:07Z")
The Lebanese army is weak? I think not. After all, it has not failed at a single one of its attempts to disarm Hizballah. An army that fails at nothing cannot be weak, can it? ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/14 "2006-07-18T12:31:56Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The Lebanese army is weak? I think not. After all, it has not failed at a single one of its attempts to disarm Hizballah. An army that fails at nothing cannot be weak, can it? Yes, yes it can. If it knows it will fail, then why should it even try? Not trying is a sign on weakness in my book. Lebanon’s in a pickle. It has neither the political stability nor the military might to do what Israel demands. Yet Israel is right to demand that Hezbollah stop its attacks, and the Lebanese army needs to gain a monopoly on force within the country sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/15 "2006-07-18T13:07:51Z")
Lebanon can’t just wash theri hands of the matter without even trying, not when the Lebanese army outnumbers Hizballah 10 to 1. At least let us hear some indication that they _want_ to disarm Hizballah - they haven’t even said that. If they don’t think they can do something, they can ask for help. They’d have nations lining up to give a hand. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/16 "2006-07-18T14:10:14Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > They’d have nations lining up to give a hand. Which nations? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/17 "2006-07-18T15:14:12Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > Which nations? Well, Israel is doing a mighty fine job of killing Lebanese citizens (and others) at a very fast clip…surely some of those (2-3%?) are members of Hezbollah? Give them a couple of months and at present rate there might not be a _country_ by the name of Lebanon, never mind Hezbollah. Sort of a mini Final Solution if you will. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/18 "2006-07-18T15:25:56Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > Which nations? The U.S. France (Lebanon’s colonial patron). Saudi Arabia. Egypt. Israel, if they want us - hell, if use them to hunt down Hizballah, we’ll give them all the weapons they need. Basically, every nation in the world other than Iran or Syria. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/19 "2006-07-18T15:27:16Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Well, Israel is doing a mighty fine job of killing Lebanese citizens (and others) at a very fast clip…surely some of those (2-3%?) are members of Hezbollah? > > Give them a couple of months and at present rate there might not be a _country_ by the name of Lebanon, never mind Hezbollah. > > Sort of a mini Final Solution if you will. Your math skills are… different from the norm? Nice Godwinization, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940/20 "2006-07-18T16:08:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The difference is that the U.S. government can actually **control** events within its borders. So can the Mexican government, nowadays… Are you **very** sure of that? [http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/07/17/mexico.army.tabasco.ap/](http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/07/17/mexico.army.tabasco.ap/) > **[BBC NEWS | Americas | Armed gang fires on Mexican jail](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5188838.stm)** > > Authorities in the Mexican state of Tabasco call in soldiers after a gang attacks a jail with grenades and bazookas. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-lebanese-government-serious/364940.md?page=2)